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Kona LHe or 3

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Winston A. Cely
Kona LHe or 3
on Nov 29, 2006 at 8:48:02 pm

I'm setting up a system for a home office edit suite. I'll be getting a new MacPro and now I'm looking at Kona cards. Since the MacPro has PCI-e slots I'm looking at the Kona LHe. I don't foresee the need for cross-conversion, so that's why I'm not going for the Kona 3, but am I selling myself short? I will be doing more and more HD material, but right now it's mostly SD still. I'm getting a loan for this system and I don't want to be paying for obsolete hardware. Is the Kona LHe going to be replaced soon making the Kona 3 worth the extra cost? (BTW my graphics card is going to be the Quadro FX 4500 so are there any known conflicts between these two cards)?

I had searched the forums, but I was getting trouble shooting threads instead of comparison threads. Which reminds me, if there's a place to compare the 2 side by side please send me that way. Sorry for bothering you pros with this, but this is part of my first big purchase for my own business and I want to make sure I'm doing right. Thanks!

"If God could do the tricks we can do, He'd be a happy Man." - Peter O'Toole - "The Stuntman"

Machine Model: Power Mac G5
CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (3.0)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 2.5 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 4.5 GB
Final Cut Studio (Not Universal, yet)


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Bob Zelin
Re: Kona LHe or 3
on Nov 29, 2006 at 9:48:27 pm

The Kona 3 and Kona LHe are both excellent products, and will not be obsolete, until Apple releases the NEXT computer, which will make everything incompatible. We have no control over this - only Apple knows.

If you do not care about upconversion from SD to HD, the Kona LHe is an excellent purchase. The Kona 3 has no capability for you to input from Beta VTR's or analog composite sources. The Kona LHe does it all. With that said, if you do need to UPCONVERT standard def to HD, there is no choice but to get the AJA Kona 3. If you still need to use Beta and composite video sources, the additonal purchase of the AJA I/O AND the AJA Kona 3 will let you do absolutely everything. If cost is no object (and cost is always an object), the Kona 3 and AJA I/O is the best combination.

Both products offer the same warantee.

Bob ZElin


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Winston A. Cely
Re: Kona LHe or 3
on Nov 29, 2006 at 9:55:26 pm

Thanks so much Bob! Being able to capture from SD sources such as BetaSP is very important, and cost is for sure an object, so it's the Kona LHe for sure.

"If God could do the tricks we can do, He'd be a happy Man." - Peter O'Toole - "The Stuntman"

Machine Model: Power Mac G5
CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (3.0)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 2.5 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 4.5 GB
Final Cut Studio (Not Universal, yet)


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Bob Cole
conversion in-a-pinch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 1:00:05 am

[Bob Zelin] "if you do need to UPCONVERT standard def to HD, there is no choice but to get the AJA Kona 3."

As a recent buyer of an LHe maybe I'm indulging in wishful thinking. But I thought there were other ways to upconvert SD to HD, via software. What is it about the Kona 3's HD conversion that is so different from simply upscaling via After Effects or indeed FCP? Real-time?


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Bob Zelin
Re: conversion in-a-pinch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 2:24:31 am

Hi Bob -
when you say "or indeed FCP" - how do you propose that you will get a Betacam 8 bit uncompressed SD signal upconverted to uncompressed 10 bit 1080i HD-SDI, with just FCP, in real time, unless you have a piece of HARDWARE to do this ?

Please explain.

bob Zelin


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Bob Cole
Re: conversion in-a-pinch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 2:29:30 am

[Bob Zelin] "how do you propose that you will get a Betacam 8 bit uncompressed SD signal upconverted to uncompressed 10 bit 1080i HD-SDI, with just FCP, in real time, unless you have a piece of HARDWARE to do this ?"


Bob, I think perhaps you misread my post. You had stated that the Kona 3 was the only way to do this, and I was asking whether you meant that Kona 3 was the only way to do this in real time.

If you don't have to do this upconversion every day, it might be more sensible to take the hit and render in software, provided the quality was good enough.

-- Bob C


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Ramona Howard
Re: conversion in-a-pinch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 3:07:37 am

Bob,

Yes there is more than one way to skin a cat....it all depends on how fast you want it done and how good of a job.

If you need to output then going the Kona route is what makes sense as you get it all and even a few things more. The up, down and cross convert are only a few things this board can do (in real time) that will make sense for any workflow and remember AJA products are professional, many of our clients won't use anything else (and these are top studios worldwide).

For the price you can not go wrong. I remember just a few short years ago an HD board was 10K with none of these features.....AJA has really stepped up to the plate and continues to deliver top products.

Now if you are just looking for a software approach, there are some free apps on Linux that are very good. Check out Graphics Magik for a start. And you can't go wrong with Shake and AE.

Best of luck,
Ramona


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walter biscardi
Re: conversion in-a-pinch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 3:08:07 am

[Bob Cole] "You had stated that the Kona 3 was the only way to do this, and I was asking whether you meant that Kona 3 was the only way to do this in real time."

Yes, it's the only way to do this in realtime.

[Bob Cole] "If you don't have to do this upconversion every day, it might be more sensible to take the hit and render in software, provided the quality was good enough."

That's between you and your client. If the quality of simply blowing up the footage in FCP and rendering is good enough for you and your client there you go. If not, you want true hardware scaling like the AJA Kona 3.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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Bob Cole
Re: conversion in-a-pinch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 1:16:36 pm

[walter biscardi] "If the quality of simply blowing up the footage in FCP and rendering is good enough for you and your client there you go. If not, you want true hardware scaling"


Thanks! You've put your finger on the question: what sort of magic does the Kona 3 do vs. software uprezzing (e.g. Red Giant's Instant HD), for using SD sources in an HD show?


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walter biscardi
Re: conversion in-a-pinch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 1:21:29 pm

[Bob Cole] "Thanks! You've put your finger on the question: what sort of magic does the Kona 3 do vs. software uprezzing (e.g. Red Giant's Instant HD), for using SD sources in an HD show?"

It's realtime, broadcast quality Upconversion. As for how it works that's AJA's engineering secret.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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keicol
Re: Kona LHe or 3
on Jan 31, 2007 at 7:09:03 am

Hey Bob,

How do you setup the IO to use the Kona 3 to upconvert from analog to HD? I expect that the Format tab on the Control Panel you'd choose primary 525 29.97 and secondary 1080psf 23.98. Will the Kona 3 see the IO LA as an input? Can I digitize HD from my Beta SP deck this way?

Thanks, Keith


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Bob Cole
anybody compare software uprezzing to Kona 3?
on Nov 30, 2006 at 2:29:48 pm

Has anybody here done a head-to-head comparison between software uprezzing and Kona 3's?

-- Bob C


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gary adcock
Re: anybody compare software uprezzing to Kona 3?
on Nov 30, 2006 at 4:15:44 pm

[Bob Cole] "Has anybody here done a head-to-head comparison between software uprezzing and Kona 3's?"

yes
shake was by far the best of the software up-conversion but not better than using the hardware based Kona cards. FCP was one of the worst in tests. The bigger issue was the time involved most of the software uprez took a fair amount of time and the hardware solutions were all realtime without loosing the TC in the Kona world, so the results were repeatable from the master tapes because I still had original TC tracks in place, something that gets stripped away in most of the software conversions.

Only Terranex hardware conversion was better than my kona cards and it cost something like 30x as much.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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Winston A. Cely
Re: anybody compare software uprezzing to Kona 3?
on Nov 30, 2006 at 6:52:11 pm

Great info! Thanks everyone. This has helped me make the right decision for my first personally owned edit suite!

"If God could do the tricks we can do, He'd be a happy Man." - Peter O'Toole - "The Stuntman"

Machine Model: Power Mac G5
CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (3.0)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 2.5 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 4.5 GB
Final Cut Studio (Not Universal, yet)


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