FORUMS: list search recent posts

Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...

COW Forums : AJA Video Systems

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
JeremyG
Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 18, 2006 at 5:09:46 am

Onlining a 720 23.98 project and I am getting weird results. I think it's a bad card, but I wanted to run this by and see if anyone has seen this.

We are onlining a piece and I got to looking at it with fresh eyes today and it seems every clip that is scaled gets a pattern on it (it looks kind of like plaid, but there's no plaid color just the pattern) when it is scaled above 100%. The DVCPro HD 'offline' scaled footage looks fine. The footage is originated on a Varicam and captured via HDSDI, 1200A, & Kona 2 @ 10 bit uncompressed. The big variable is that all of this footage was shot on white.

I am using FCP 5.1.2, Kona 2, QT 7.1.3, Kona v3.2. I did some further testing and it seems if I turn down the whites under the 3 way cc white value of 235, the pattern goes away. Perhaps this is a white value foul up?

Another weird thing, it's not FCP. The quicktime file is clean, a scaled exported quicktime is clean when watching in quicktime or the viewer. if I export the scaled clips (reference movie) and watch it through Kona TV, the pattern returns, but the quicktime is clean. How can this happen? What does scaling have to do with this?

I trashed prefs, monkeyed with rendering bit depths and qualities, nothing changes it.

Has anyone seen this before?

Jeremy


Return to posts index

David Battistella
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 18, 2006 at 6:17:51 pm



What if you edit the clip natively (in 720P DVCPRO HD).

Apply the effects, moves ,etc.

THEN

change the sequence setting to 10 bit uncompressed and render or copy paste it into a new 10 bit UC sequence.


the 235 is an NTSC peak white value, so that seems very strange. DVCPRO HD from varicam has problems with solid colors. It is the single number one thing that breaks the codec down. I have seen it in several different instances.

Maybe you can edit natively and then just cpconvert and render the final, it might be simpler.

David



Peace and Love :)


Return to posts index

JeremyG
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 18, 2006 at 7:58:16 pm

Thanks for the response.

The capture went fine in 10 bit. It's only when I scale that the pictures break up. It's really really strange.

Here's a picture for reference. I darkened it a little in photoshop to make it easier to see. It's a picture of my 20L5/1 since I cannot export this pattern (it's not baked in to the media, it only happens on the 20L5 display)

Notice the pattern shows up on the collar of the white smock as well.

http://www.madayproductions.com/cc/pattern_Web.pct.zip

Jeremy



Return to posts index


David Battistella
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 18, 2006 at 11:02:08 pm



Just a thought.

Is there a way for you to monitor the SDI output of the K2. The analog output is no where near the quality of the SDI op and you many be seeing anomolies in that D to A conversion.

How does an exported frame look in Photoshop.

FYI the link doesn't open.

David




Peace and Love :)


Return to posts index

David Battistella
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 18, 2006 at 11:06:08 pm



I got the image. No worries.

WOW! that is some freaky looking stuff.

See if you can output this via SDI to the 1200A and then play back the 1200A tape to the same monitor.

Send me a four to six frame FULL REZ QT file I can download and I can look at it through my K2, I have a JVC monitor, so we can narrow down if it is the monitor or the K2 and driver combo.

I'll try to duplicate it here.

David



Peace and Love :)


Return to posts index

JeremyG
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 19, 2006 at 6:53:34 pm

Here's the link that i sent aja. There are two clips, one unscaled, uncompressed out of FCP and one of my monitor in DVCPro HD.

Jeremy

http://www.madayproductions.com/aja/

PS Thank you David for taking a look at this. I have a hunch I have a goofed up card unless this problem is systemic. For good reasons, I highly doubt it's systemic to the AJA architecture. When you download the uncompressed clip, put it in a 720p23.98 10 bit timeline and scale it over 100% and see if it breaks up as previously pictured.


Return to posts index


David Battistella
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 19, 2006 at 7:51:33 pm



Jeremy,

I can tell you that I have succussfully duplicated the problem on my system. Before I even performed the scaling I was seeing a lot of horizontal noise.

Not sure what is causing this but I can tell you that I can see the exact same problem on my system.

By jove! You've found a bug!


David



Peace and Love :)


Return to posts index

David Battistella
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 19, 2006 at 10:14:39 pm



Jeremy,

I think this has to do with the HD-SDI out of the 1200A deck. Here is why I say that. I have some 23.98 720P varicam footage in my machine right now. It was captured via firewire.

I took one of those clips and droped it into a 10 bit UC timeline and blew it up and it was fine. I think that you should try to recapture the stuff via firewire (lossless) and see if you get the same results. If you need to go 10 bit UC then do all of you work in this codec, duplicate your sequence and change the compressor to 10 bit UC for the final render.

THis way you can shoot the squence back to the 1200A via firewire or SDI.

David

Peace and Love :)


Return to posts index

JeremyG
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 20, 2006 at 12:04:01 am

I guess that'll be the work around for now until AJA can get it sorted. I took a break from working today and didn't do any further investigation so I thank you kindly for confirming this.

What version of the driver do you have loaded?

Thanks again for checking all this out on your end.


Jeremy


Return to posts index


David Battistella
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 20, 2006 at 3:50:47 am



I'm on all of the latest drivers, software, OD, etc.

David

Peace and Love :)


Return to posts index

JeremyG
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 20, 2006 at 4:58:40 am

Darn, I was hoping a driver update would fix it.

David, I thank you again for going through the trouble. Let's hope AJA can see this same problem tomorrow so they can work on a fix.

Jeremy



Return to posts index

mactrix
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 20, 2006 at 5:40:08 pm


I can reproduce it but another way.

I downloaded your example file.
I put it into a 10 bit uncompressed SD sequence.
I scaled the clip to 102%.
I output to a JVC SD monitor via an AJA Io.

I can solve the problem like this:

Go to -> and chose


Return to posts index


JeremyG
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 20, 2006 at 5:48:46 pm

Hmm, guess it's a 10 bit thing. Thanks for checking. I have yet to speak with AJA about it, but now maybe I think it's an Apple codec issue. I don't know and when I speak to them I'll post back.


Jeremy


Return to posts index

Andrew Schuurmann
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 20, 2006 at 8:48:55 pm

Hi guys,
I've had this same problem with Apple's 10 bit codec in SD (using the AJA Kona NTSC 10 bit Uncompressed easy setup on my Quad G5 with a LHe -- all drivers, versions, etc. up to date). It showed up on the whites on a bunch of the picture-in-picture style effects I had in the edit (scaled to less than 100%). I ran out of time (deadline), so I ended up moving everything to an 8 bit timeline and the problem went away. I vaguely recall hearing that Apple's 10 bit codec isn't reliable (maybe from Gary Adcock?), but I didn't think about it until now.
Not that any of this info helps solve the problem, but I wanted to let you know it's not just your system.
Let me know if I can provide any more info.

Andrew


Return to posts index

mactrix
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 20, 2006 at 5:55:19 pm


Sorry, my posting was messed up.


You can solve the issue like this:

Go to 'Sequence' - 'Settings' - 'Video processing'

Use 'Render in 8-Bit YUV' or switch 'Motion Filter Quality' to 'Fastest (linear)'.




Return to posts index


JeremyG
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 20, 2006 at 8:37:21 pm

Yeah, the html-ish code got stripped in the post, but came through in the email notification.

Thanks for reposting for the public to see. I am still waiting to hear from AJA.


Jeremy


Return to posts index

JeremyG
Re: Weird 720p 10 bit scaling problem...
on Nov 20, 2006 at 10:22:57 pm

I spoke with AJA and it's a bug but they aren't sure if it's the Kona or Apple's codec. They are working on it.

I have the same media captured at 8 bit and there's no problem (just like you said Andrew).

I'll disseminate more info as I get it.

Thanks for your help.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]