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XDCAM HD Settings?

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Wayne Carey
XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 17, 2006 at 5:51:00 pm

Yeah... I know what you're going to say but listen to me first.

I have some HDV footage that I want to digitize in the XDCAM HD codec. I would like to use the Log & Capture window to log my footage and then digitize the old way and get my footage into the XDCAM HD codec.

We are shooting and editing XDCAM HD 35 m/bit and yes... I do have the latest Sony XDCAM Transfer software. I'm just looking for a way to input my HDV into XDCAM HD so that I can edit easily and quickly.

I could do this fine with the XDCAM SD codec BUT when I try to setup the XDCAM HD Easy Setup to XDCAM HD, I get a file that cannot play at all or one that is super low quality.

Has someone sucessful done this?

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com


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mactrix
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 20, 2006 at 5:12:40 pm


It's not possible ... HDV and XDCAM HD are using the same 25 Mbit Codec
and the 35 Mbit version is only available with XDCAM HD.

Due to the MPEG-2 GOP structure you can't capture HDV as 35 Mbit XDCAM HD.
You can only transcode it after capturing ...



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Wayne Carey
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 20, 2006 at 10:11:20 pm

[mactrix] "It's not possible ... HDV and XDCAM HD are using the same 25 Mbit Codec
and the 35 Mbit version is only available with XDCAM HD."


While I fully understand that XDCAM HD is totally different from XDCAM, I did use HDV captured thru my Kona 2 into the XDCAM IMX50 codec. It works superbly.

[mactrix] "Due to the MPEG-2 GOP structure you can't capture HDV as 35 Mbit XDCAM HD.
You can only transcode it after capturing ..."


To answer this.... I can digitize into ANY codec except the XDCAM HD codec. At the moment, I'm haing to capture everything in the DVCPro HD codec because its the most compatible codec I can use at this time.

My problem seems to be where FCP and the Kona meet. Nowhere in FCP settings is there a scene aspect ratio of 1440x1080 except with HDV and I don't want to work in HDV.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com


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mactrix
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 20, 2006 at 10:23:54 pm

"I did use HDV captured thru my Kona 2 into the XDCAM IMX50 codec. It works superbly."

This is another story. Capturing thru the Kona will disengage the GOP structure. It's no
HDV anymore, it's a transparent signal.


"To answer this.... I can digitize into ANY codec except the XDCAM HD codec."

Again, via the Kona 2 it's possible to capture any codec, depending your system speed.
You can also capture DV formats via FireWire to any codec, however not native HDV.

"My problem seems to be where FCP and the Kona meet. Nowhere in FCP settings is there a scene aspect ratio of 1440x1080 except with HDV and I don't want to work in HDV."

If you are using the Kona card than you will input a transparent signal via HD-SDI.
It's not recommended to use analog inputs. A Convergent Design cross-converter
can convert HDV to HD-SDI resulting thru a pure digital transfer. Also 1440 x 1080
subsampling from HDV is upscaled to 1920 x 1080 full res. You can use the Kona
than to capture to uncompressed or DVCPRO HD.



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Wayne Carey
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 20, 2006 at 10:59:44 pm

[mactrix] "If you are using the Kona card than you will input a transparent signal via HD-SDI.
It's not recommended to use analog inputs. A Convergent Design cross-converter
can convert HDV to HD-SDI resulting thru a pure digital transfer. Also 1440 x 1080
subsampling from HDV is upscaled to 1920 x 1080 full res. You can use the Kona
than to capture to uncompressed or DVCPRO HD."


I've already been doing this for the past year... The problem is you can't digitize ANYTHING into XDCAM HD at any rate. I've even tried to render out animations from After Effects with no success of stable video.

[mactrix] "You can use the Kona
than to capture to uncompressed or DVCPRO HD."


YES... I'm very well aware of that and have been doing this already. BUT I'd like to capture into XDCAM HD so that I can use the transfer software to import and export. At the current moment, I have to edit in DVCPro HD and make a new sequence of XDCAM HD and render it out for about 6 hours for a 35 minute program (bars, tone, slate, and black after the show).



_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com


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mactrix
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 20, 2006 at 11:10:54 pm

"The problem is you can't digitize ANYTHING into XDCAM HD at any rate."

It's is and was never a feature of FCP or AJA to capture into XDCAM HD.
XDCAM HD with variable frame rate and GOP structure is no capture
codec ...

"I'd like to capture into XDCAM HD"

It's not possible.



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Wayne Carey
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 21, 2006 at 7:32:27 pm

[mactrix] "It's is and was never a feature of FCP or AJA to capture into XDCAM HD.
XDCAM HD with variable frame rate and GOP structure is no capture
codec ..."



I understand its capabilities completely... I preach on here about the misgivings of HDV all of the time.

BUT, what you are missing is the fact that I can create files in HDV in Compressor and After Effects all day long. I understand that the nature of XDCAM HD is still a form of HDV but why is it that I can create 25 mb/s HDV files but not XDCAM HD files. That is my whole quandry.

When support for XDCAM SD came out last year, I was having similar problems with it in FCP until an update came out to help with this issue.

[mactrix] "It's not possible."

Then explain how I can create files in After Effects and Compressor in HDV. FCP looks at HDV as something completely and totally different than anything on the market. Why is that?

Don't get me wrong... I love FCP and will continue to use it BUT its behind on current technologies that should be working.



_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com


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mactrix
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 21, 2006 at 8:04:08 pm


I just rendered out a XDCAM HD 35 Mbit clip out of After Effects.

Composition is set to 1920 x 1080 with 25 fps.

Render Settings: Best Settings
Output Module -> Format Options: XDCAM HD 1080p25 (35 Mb/s VBR)

Like this it worked on my setup. In Compressor I would create a similar
preset ...



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Wayne Carey
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 21, 2006 at 8:09:01 pm

[mactrix] "I just rendered out a XDCAM HD 35 Mbit clip out of After Effects.

Composition is set to 1920 x 1080 with 25 fps.

Render Settings: Best Settings
Output Module -> Format Options: XDCAM HD 1080p25 (35 Mb/s VBR)

Like this it worked on my setup. In Compressor I would create a similar
preset ..."


Now, you're on the smae page as I am. BUT in FCP if I want to capture something into the XDCAM HD codec such as HDV, upconverted Digibeta, or any signal that I wish... it comes out really bad. It skips frames, looses sync and overall poor picture quality.

That is my question that I have been asking. Has anybody gotten this to work?



_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com


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mactrix
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 21, 2006 at 8:19:13 pm


I know English is not my mother tongue but I think that I clearly pointed out that

CAPTURING INTO XDCAM HD OR HDV DOESN'T WORK IN FCP

You can capture native HDV from a HDV source that is connected via FireWire.

You can import native XDCAM HD 35 MBit from a XDCAM source that is connected
via FireWire using the Sony XDCAM Transfer software and File Access Mode.

You CANNOT capture into HDV nor XDCAM HD via a capture card.





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Wayne Carey
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 21, 2006 at 8:46:51 pm

[mactrix] "You CANNOT capture into HDV nor XDCAM HD via a capture card."

Yes... I am fully aware of what you are talking about BUT this is the last piece of the puzzle for AJA to have a complete product.

Th reason I bring this up is the fact that our main camera is XDCAM HD and our secondary cameras are HDV. I need a way to get HDV into XDCAM HD and I can capture directly into XDCAM SD from HDV but not into XDCAM HD. And please, let's not get into the quality difference discussion. I am aware and for our budget, the qualities are extremely similar for money.

Currently, I have to work in the DVCProHD codec and this makes using the Sony Transfer software difficult to use. My point is to perfect my workflow into the best possible for the quality and file sizes. XDCAM HD has smaller file sizes with quality that rivals HDCAM. I need a way to conserve space.



_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com


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mactrix
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 21, 2006 at 9:01:28 pm


AJA offers yet comprehensive support for various codecs.
It is very time consuming for manufactures to support all
these different formats. However AJA supports yet HDV
for video monitoring but capturing is a totally other story
due to the MPEG-2 GOP structure.

It's not up to AJA to offer you a customized product. It's
up to you to customize your workflow.

Go and buy a Convergent Design HDConnect SI HDV to
HD-SDI cross-converter. This will solve your problem.


And alternatively why don't you just mix your formats inside
one timeline? Set it to unlimted realtime to get at least a
realtime preview ...



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Jay Chance
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 20, 2006 at 9:48:58 pm

I almost had it working using the analog component out of an HDV deck into a Kona LHe card...but I was dropping frames on the capture....I've got an email into AJA support on this issue. Here is a link to a white paper from AJA on using HDV footage.
http://www.aja.com/pdf/support/AJA_whitepaper_HDV.pdf


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mactrix
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 20, 2006 at 9:58:29 pm


Take a high detailed image scene and compare the analog to whatever conversion
with your native HDV import. You will cry, I promise you ... the analog outputs on
HDV camcorders or decks are questionable at best ...



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Wayne Carey
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 20, 2006 at 10:24:31 pm

[Jay Chance] "I almost had it working using the analog component out of an HDV deck into a Kona LHe card...but I was dropping frames on the capture....I've got an email into AJA support on this issue."

Yeah, I'm sure it has something to do with the aspect ratio conversions - converting from 1440x1080 to 1920x1080. I'm not too sure that FCP really has full support for XDCAM HD just yet. This is similar to what was going on when XDCAM came out last year in FCP.

But I'm glad to see that someone else is working on this issue.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com


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mactrix
Re: XDCAM HD Settings?
on Nov 20, 2006 at 10:50:50 pm

"Yeah, I'm sure it has something to do with the aspect ratio conversions - converting from 1440x1080 to 1920x1080."

When capturing thru the Kona card the signal is already 1920 x 1080.
This is done on the analog outputs of the HDV deck and has nothing
to do with FCP ...

"I'm not too sure that FCP really has full support for XDCAM HD just yet. This is similar to what was going on when XDCAM came out last year in FCP."

What do you mean by full XDCAM HD support? All codecs are fully
supported. But XDCAM HD is an import format, no capturing format.



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