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Realtime Alpha (animation codec)

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Bart Harrison
Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Oct 24, 2006 at 2:41:24 pm

Does anybody else miss the realtime alpha playback capability we used to have with CineWave ? I'm wondering if we'll ever see this feature show up in Kona ? Any thoughts ??

Bart

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Bart Harrison
MPA - The HD Suite

America's VAR
TurnKey Editing Systems, Storage Area Networks
HD Consulting, Production & Post, Exhibition & Distribution
http://www.hdsuite.com
954-894-1221


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walter biscardi
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Oct 24, 2006 at 2:49:13 pm

[Bart Harrison] "Does anybody else miss the realtime alpha playback capability we used to have with CineWave ?"

And HOW! Just when I was getting used to that feature, BAM! the product goes away.

I would take mixed formats in the same timeline in realtime over realtime alpha though. we had that with CineWave too.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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Bart Harrison
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Oct 24, 2006 at 2:55:38 pm

I praise AJA for all the cool little features they keep bringing on line, but this is one (or two) we REALLY need !! Ask anyone who uses Motion everyday !

Bart

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Bart Harrison
MPA - The HD Suite

America's VAR
TurnKey Editing Systems, Storage Area Networks
HD Consulting, Production & Post, Exhibition & Distribution
http://www.hdsuite.com
954-894-1221


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Ron
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
by
on Oct 24, 2006 at 8:36:06 pm

I'll second that! Love the Kona, but could definitely use mixed codecs and RT alpha.
I think the theory earlier was FCP would eventually suppoort this natively. I think Avid does now, so who knows.


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JeremyG
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Oct 24, 2006 at 10:11:54 pm

As this feature has not been implemented, I think it's probably written by Apple that hardware cannot support these features. This is all speculation and hunch, but if there were a hardware card that supported this, a lot less computers would be sold which would be bad for Apple. I bet people would still be trying to suck every last bit out of their cinewave's still to this day with older/aging computers if the hardware had been continued to be supported. Instead of people buying a new computer every 2-3 years, it would be every 3-5 years. That does not add to the bottom line for Apple (or the capture card manufacturer for that matter). Hardware acceleration means less computer sales. I'm sure AJA has the ability, the drive and know how to make this happen but I bet Apple is preventing them from doing so. Don't you think it's weird that Cinewave just dropped their product line (to be eventually sold to Avid) at the time that they did?

Also, Cinewave was over twice the price of AJAs current FCP offerings.

Jeremy


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gary adcock
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Oct 25, 2006 at 11:04:48 am

[Ron] "I'll second that! Love the Kona, but could definitely use mixed codecs and RT alpha."

Everyone does know that it is apple right? Aja's Kona TV app will play Animation codec files out to video in realtime.
It is just FCP that will not.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Oct 25, 2006 at 12:32:17 pm

If Apple moves FCP the way it seems they are, it should take on more features of OSX and Motion. This means a lot more freedom when it comes to managing effects and media than it does today. GPU's have to problems handling multiple streams of video or graphics with alpha. It will come to FCP some day


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walter biscardi
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Oct 25, 2006 at 12:44:39 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Mixed codec's in the timeline would be a HUGE plus also. Even Media 100 supports this THROUGH QUICKTIME now. Media 100 also gets alot of "nifty" features from it's Kona 3 hardware FCP does not - amongst other things alpha-channel support


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Oct 25, 2006 at 12:52:59 pm

As I stated the Media 100 today has gone away from the "old" HDX board to a Kona 3 plattform and they do things Apple FCP doesn't. I reakon the Kona handles SD <-> HD conversion in realtime in the timeline.

But I also reackon Apple will be moving more to a "motion-approach" for FCP. GPU acceleration will more and more take over the work off the CPU in the future - even handling stuff like compression in realtime.

NAB might be interessting next year


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John Pale
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Oct 26, 2006 at 4:11:50 am

Prior to its release, I saw a demo of FCP 4 (thats 4, NOT 5) that had multi format in one timeline capability ....this system did NOT have a Cinewave card. Apple has been trying to get this feature in there for a long time, but I have no idea what the problem is.



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Ryan Leimbach
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Nov 5, 2006 at 3:35:50 pm

Final Cut and the Kona 3 do provide Realtime Animation Codec Playback.
On the Kona Control Panel Change the Output Mode to Key/Fill.
Then in Final Cut a new sequence preset needs to be created (I duplicated the AJA Kona 3-1080i 29.97 Uncompressed 8-Bit)
Edit the sequence preset changing the Compressor to Animation. Then change the name and hit OK. (I named mine AJA Kona 3-1080i 29.97 Animation)
The Final step is to create an Easy Setup. On the Summary tab choose the New Sequence Preset you just created.
Then change the video playback to AJA Kona 3 - RGBA for the frame rate you have choosen (My setting is AJA Kona 3 - 1080i 29.97 RGBA).
Next hit Create Easy Setup and name the Easy setup and hit Create.
Now choose the new Easy Setup, create new sequence and drop the Animation Clip into the sequence.

Kona 3 now outputs Video out of output 1 and Key out of output 2.

The Downstream Keyer on the Kona 3 will allow you to key over a live video input. Great for compositing especially with Motion.

Good Luck,
Ryan Leimbach


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walter biscardi
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Nov 5, 2006 at 3:38:57 pm

[Ryan Leimbach] "
The Downstream Keyer on the Kona 3 will allow you to key over a live video input. Great for compositing especially with Motion."


That's not exactly what we're talking about. That's great for laying a bug or single graphic over an entire show and it's a cool feature for some uses.

What Cin


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Bart Harrison
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Nov 5, 2006 at 4:10:59 pm

[walter biscardi] "Much more flexible and ultimately more useful in day to day editing than a single stream of Alpha playing out."


And definitely the MOST asked for feature request I ever get from my customers !!!

Bart

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Bart Harrison
MPA - The HD Suite

America's VAR
TurnKey Editing Systems, Storage Area Networks
HD Consulting, Production & Post, Exhibition & Distribution
http://www.hdsuite.com
954-894-1221


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Ryan Leimbach
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Nov 5, 2006 at 10:26:29 pm

Leave the Downstream Keyer Off and set the Digital Out SDI Output 1 is set to Video+Key on the Kona Control Panel. Set the Sequence Setting of Final Cut to Animation Codec and the Video Playback to Kona 3 RGBA. The Fill will be Realtime on SDI Out 1 and the Alpha on SDI Out 2. The Sequence must be playing for the Alpha to update.

Hope this is what your looking for I never used the Cinewave.

Ryan


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walter biscardi
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Nov 5, 2006 at 10:32:50 pm

[Ryan Leimbach] "Hope this is what your looking for I never used the Cinewave."

Nope, not what we're looking for. We're looking for full Alpha support across all timelines with mulitple graphics in the the timeline. What the AJA feature does is allow a single graphic to be output.

So in the case of my current show, I have 22 names supers I'm going to create in After Effects with alpha channel. With the CineWave, I would simply place all 22 supers in the timeline and hit play, no need to re-render all the supers in the timeline.

AJA's feature is very cool for applying a single graphic across an entire timeline like a bug.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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Bart Harrison
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Nov 5, 2006 at 10:36:45 pm

[walter biscardi] "With the CineWave, I would simply place all 22 supers in the timeline and hit play, no need to re-render all the supers in the timeline."

Yeah, where's Andrew Baum when we need him !!!

Bart

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Bart Harrison
MPA - The HD Suite

America's VAR
TurnKey Editing Systems, Storage Area Networks
HD Consulting, Production & Post, Exhibition & Distribution
http://www.hdsuite.com
954-894-1221


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walter biscardi
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Nov 5, 2006 at 10:38:47 pm

[Bart Harrison] "Yeah, where's Andrew Baum when we need him !!!"

I have no idea. Does anybody know? Did he stay with Pinnacle when Avid made the purchase?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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Bart Harrison
Re: Realtime Alpha (animation codec)
on Nov 5, 2006 at 10:54:22 pm

I heard from a former member of the CineWave engineering team that Andrew's now with the Pinnacle (Avid) consumer product division. Andrew's a character, but he always made sure his end users got what they needed ! I miss having him in our corner !!

Bart

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Bart Harrison
MPA - The HD Suite

America's VAR
TurnKey Editing Systems, Storage Area Networks
HD Consulting, Production & Post, Exhibition & Distribution
http://www.hdsuite.com
954-894-1221


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