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Best Settings for Green Screen

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peter tours
Best Settings for Green Screen
on Jul 27, 2013 at 9:44:54 pm

I did a search before posting this and I apologize if i missed this covered previously.

I am an editor and our crew uses a Panasonic HPX500 which records DVCPROHD1080 30p over 60i on P2. I am assuming recording the HD-SDI signal from the camera on a KiPro set at ProRes HQ will give me a significant compositing advantage over the P2 recording.

That said, from my reading it appears Ki Pro records only what the camera provides or what is designated by the operator but only either 720p or 1080i.

Here's where the deficit in my knowledge comes in and my instinct takes over - I would assume I would want the largest frame size (1080) and the fastest frame rate 60fps and a progressive recording, It does not appear KiPro can create such a file - and perhaps I am way off here. maybe such a format doesn't even exist or is not convention, again it's just my instinct.

I would appreciate advice on how to tell the crew to set up the KiPro...or whether to use it or not. We will still record simultaneously on P2 for backup (or primary if the KiPro is not a big advantage to the chroma keys.

Thanks in advance!

Peter Tours
TnT Video Services, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, FL

TRI EA5 1974-1977
Convergence ECS1B 1977-1979
Sony BVE 500 1979 - 1984
Datatron Vanguard 1984 - 1993
GVG VPE141 1993 - 1998
Media 100 1995 - 2006
Final Cut Pro 2005 to not too much longer
Adobe Creative Cloud


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gary adcock
Re: Best Settings for Green Screen
on Jul 28, 2013 at 4:40:08 pm

[peter tours] "uses a Panasonic HPX500 which records DVCPROHD1080 30p over 60i on P2"
[peter tours] " I would assume I would want the largest frame size (1080) and the fastest frame rate 60fps and a progressive recording, It does not appear KiPro can create such a file"

First
The KiPro only records what can be passed over a single link HDSDI cable (1.5Gpbs) and that tops out at 1080 30p. 1080 60p requires a camera and a recorder that uses Dual Link or 3G HDSDI.

HOWEVER you seem to want to record more info than your camera can actually provide to the recorder so the question is actually moot for the equipment at hand.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
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peter tours
Re: Best Settings for Green Screen
on Jul 29, 2013 at 5:56:40 pm

So Gary are you suggesting simply recording the P2 files and not bother with the KiPro?

Peter Tours
TnT Video Services, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, FL

TRI EA5 1974-1977
Convergence ECS1B 1977-1979
Sony BVE 500 1979 - 1984
Datatron Vanguard 1984 - 1993
GVG VPE141 1993 - 1998
Media 100 1995 - 2006
Final Cut Pro 2005 to not too much longer
Adobe Creative Cloud


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gary adcock
Re: Best Settings for Green Screen
on Jul 29, 2013 at 8:52:11 pm

[peter tours] "So Gary are you suggesting simply recording the P2 files and not bother with the KiPro?"

No not at all.
Capturing the signal out via HDSDI often offers better resolution and higher color fidelity than the camera native formats, at the cost of stripping out the majority of the Metadata generated.

I feel that both are needed, one reason is because many cameras require capturing media to trigger start-stop signals.

Shooting at 1080 29.97p to allow for a 60i deliverable would offer the user the highest quality file capable on both the KiPro and the camera, since the camera mentioned does not support acquisition or output of any higher quality format or frame rate.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL


Follow my blog at http://www.garyadcock.com

Or follow me on Twitter
@garyadcock




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AJA Sales Department
Re: Best Settings for Green Screen
on Jul 29, 2013 at 5:25:39 pm

Peter,
Using the Ki Pro to produce your recordings may offer some advantages when you perform the compositing later in your green screen workflow.

The first advantage is that the Ki Pro records to the Apple ProRes codec which is full raster. The HPX500 records to the DVCPRO HD codec. DVCPRO HD creates what is sometimes referred to as "thin raster" video. For 720p material, DVCPRO HD files would be 960x720, while Ki Pro files would be full 1280x720. For 1080i material, DVCPRO HD files would be 1280x1080 for 60Hz material (1440x1080 for 50Hz material) while Ki Pro files would be full 1920x1080. Working with full raster video can be beneficial when material is used in some applications and when performing tasks such as compositing.

The second advantage is that, while you will not be able to obtain a 10-bit output from the HPX500, you can produce files with the Ki Pro that are within a 10-bit container. While your source output may be 8-bit, all further processing of the material could be performed at 10-bit using the Apple ProRes files. You typically want to avoid processing video at 8-bit when tasks such as compositing or color correction are involved.

Since the HPX500 does not output 1080p 60 and the original Ki Pro product is not capable of recording 1080p 60, you will not be able to record this format. Depending upon your content, workflow and desired deliverables, you might wish to record the higher frame rate offered by 720p 59.94. Higher frame rates are generally beneficial when high motion actions, such as sports, need to be captured with precision. Or the larger raster size of 1080 may be more important to your workflow or deliverables.

If you have further questions about the Ki Pro product, please don't hesitate to contact AJA directly via phone or email.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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peter tours
Re: Best Settings for Green Screen
on Jul 29, 2013 at 5:44:49 pm

Thank you that reinforces everything I believed about the extra step of using the KiPro. A few more questions:

"and the original Ki Pro product is not capable of recording 1080p 60" How do I know if my vendor has and Original? Is there a newer product that will inconvert to 1080 60p?

My dilemma is, small size more frames and progressive vs large size and interlacing. My deliverable is 1080i. Given the available formats of the HPX500,
1080/60i
1080/24p (over 60i)
1080/24pA (over 60i)
1080/30p (over 60i)
720/60p
720/24p (over 60p)
720/30p (over 60p)
720/24pN (Native)*2
720/30pN (Native)*2: In the Native mode, AG-HPX500 series record only active frames.

how what is the optimum settings for the camera/ KiPro for greenscreen?

Second - connected via HD-SDI does the KiPro require it's own buttons pressed to record and stop or can it be triggered from the camera like, for instance, and Atmos Samurai?

Thanks!!!

Peter Tours
TnT Video Services, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, FL

TRI EA5 1974-1977
Convergence ECS1B 1977-1979
Sony BVE 500 1979 - 1984
Datatron Vanguard 1984 - 1993
GVG VPE141 1993 - 1998
Media 100 1995 - 2006
Final Cut Pro 2005 to not too much longer
Adobe Creative Cloud


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AJA Sales Department
Re: Best Settings for Green Screen
on Jul 29, 2013 at 8:12:38 pm

The original Ki Pro product offers a single 1.485Gbps SDI input. 1080p 59.94 is not supported by a single 1.485Gbps connection. The newest Ki Pro product, the Ki Pro Quad, offers support for 1080p 59.94 via dual link 1.485Gbps or single 3G-SDI input. While the Ki Pro Quad can record 1080p 59.94 from a native 1080p 59.94 source, none of the Ki Pro products offers conversion to 1080p 59.94. There are several Ki Pro products: the original Ki Pro, the Ki Pro Mini, the Ki Pro Rack and the Ki Pro Quad. It should be easy to identify each of the products as they are all physically distinct.

Since your deliverable is 1080i, then you might elect to make Ki Pro recordings at 1080i so that your acquisition format matches your delivery format.

Regarding the triggering of recording on the Ki Pro, the Ki Pro products may be triggered in a number of ways: via depression of the record button on the unit, via the web UI and the record button in that interface, via incrementing record run timecode from a camera and, with some select cameras, via ancillary start/stop data.

Again, if you have specific questions about the operation of the Ki Pro, please feel free to contact AJA Technical Support directly via phone or email.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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