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Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro

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Chuck Pullen
Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro
on Aug 29, 2011 at 6:15:28 pm

I am working with a school studio that has a Ki-Pro as both a record and playback deck via HD-Sdi to a Slate Switcher. They are using the component out to feed an HD monitor. I am noticing an issue that if you accidentally switch to the Ki-Pro while recording it goes into a loop and you have to stop the recording. Is there anyway to auto-disable the Sdi output only while it is in record mode, or does anyone else have any thoughts about this?

Chuck Pullen


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AJA Sales Department
Re: Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro
on Aug 30, 2011 at 12:13:46 am

What you have described in your post is somewhat unclear. It sounds like you might be routing the SDI output of the switcher to the SDI input of the Ki Pro as well as routing the SDI output of the Ki Pro to the SDI input of the switcher; this would create a feedback loop as you would have an E-to-E state during record or idle on the Ki Pro (not dissimilar to a VTR). You cannot disable the SDI output of the Ki Pro; you may need to reconsider the signal routing for your configuration.

Please consider contacting AJA Technical Support for assistance with your signal routing to and from the Ki Pro via phone or email between 9am and 5pm PST, Monday through Friday. They will be happy to help.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Chuck Pullen
Re: Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro
on Aug 30, 2011 at 1:10:28 pm

No you got it right Jeremy, the deck is recording program out, but it also acts as a playback deck on the same switcher. In a normal studio environment it’s not an issue, but as I mentioned, this is a high school studio, so I’m just trying to make things as simple as possible, and seeing the same source on two inputs can be confusing for a student.

To AJA support, in most applications where I use and have seen others using a Ki Pro in a fly pack/studio situation it is set up in an “E to E state” causing a potential loop. You may want to consider adding a “disable (x) output during recording” in the next firmware update? Just a thought.

Chuck


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro
on Aug 30, 2011 at 3:57:07 pm

[Chuck Pullen] "No you got it right Jeremy, the deck is recording program out, but it also acts as a playback deck on the same switcher. In a normal studio environment it’s not an issue, but as I mentioned, this is a high school studio, so I’m just trying to make things as simple as possible, and seeing the same source on two inputs can be confusing for a student. "

Sounds like an excellent time for a hard lesson! :) Simple, in video, usually means more money or, how to really pay attention to your inputs.

Is there anything else that they can use as a playback or record device? A capture card and a laptop or desktop?

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro
on Aug 30, 2011 at 12:27:52 am

All outputs are active all the time on the KiPro.

If I understand correctly, you would have to break the loop with another dedicated playback or record Ki (or another switcher). "Rewire" the bus at the switcher as to not get a loop if at all possible, I'm not familiar with that switcher. Or don't switch to that input when the Ki is recording. :)

You might want to contact AJA and see if there's a way to ensure recording if a loop occurs and is subsequently switched back to the proper feed.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro
on Aug 30, 2011 at 12:29:27 am

Oops. Sorry, I didn't see AJAs post.


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Marc Colemont
Re: Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro
on Sep 1, 2011 at 5:24:22 am

I do use the output of my program recording back from the KiPro simply to see the recording is OK. Label your monitors or the fields in the multiview.
Making the output to go black while recording would freak out a lot more people and makes no sense to me.


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Chuck Pullen
Re: Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro
on Sep 1, 2011 at 1:53:35 pm

Marc, I have the Ki Pro in my Fly pack wired in a SDI “loop” as well and I agree that seeing a picture from the Ki Pro as a confidence feed is certainly a necessity. On the other hand, I have worked with several educational institutions using Ki Pro’s and they have all asked the same question about breaking the loop during recording as it seems to confuse the student directors. This particular instance, the monitor is fed from the component out, and the switcher input comes from the SDI.

I was just requesting that AJA add a “disable (x) output during recording” menu in the next firmware update, so that I would be able to go in, keep the component active at all times, and disable the SDI output during recording so that there is no chance of feedback.

To me this also goes back to the days of classic tape VTR’s, where you wouldn't see a picture coming from the VTR unless you were in fact recording. I don’t know about you but that has saved my butt a couple of times when I missed hitting the “play” and “record” buttons simultaneously.

Chuck


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Pete Court
Re: Avoiding a "Loop" with a Ki-Pro
on Oct 2, 2011 at 1:15:21 pm

[Chuck Pullen] "I have worked with several educational institutions using Ki Pro’s and they have all asked the same question about breaking the loop during recording as it seems to confuse the student directors"

As it was said before they need the lesson.

And, who said feedback is always bad. Before we had Digital effects boxes we used feedback to mix with other video to create effects. A satellite feedback loop is really great as it takes time to reach the satellite and come back. With a simple GVG 300 3ME switcher we did all kinds of effects.

If they are just entering this field they will need to understand the concept of “source and load” where they are and how and where they are routed. Tell them it’s just a small part of the multi- tasking they will need to do to become successful in this industry.

Best of luck to your students.

Pete Court
VideoGO Inc
http://WWW.videogoinc.com


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