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AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping

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Seth Lesko
AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping
on Jun 10, 2011 at 7:32:36 pm

First, let me start off by saying I have been a big fan of the Aja Ki pro. I currently own 2 ki pros and 1 ki pro mini.

Recently I have seen these systems have 2 very disconcerning issues.

1. In the new firmware update AJA has added a "custom clip" and "custom take" feature with the ability turn turn each one "on" or "off"

If you use the custom clip feature and turn the custom take "off" guess what happens? Well if you press record twice it actually will over write the first file with no warning what so ever. We use the devices to record program records and multiple camera iso in an live event setting. We have lost portions of our programs, not knowing about this new issuse.

I would like to ask AJA:

1. Why is this even an option? In the standard naming option there is no option to turn the take feature off.

2. Do you plan to address this issue in a future firmware update.

The second issue we have experienced with this product is the fact that the recorder will actually stop recording if there is a frame dropped in the signal comming to the feed. In the enviorment I use these recorders we have a Grass Vallley Turbo II operator who is also monitoring multiple camera ISO's and program records. He does monitor the output, but the ki's are rackmounted and he can't always see that the record button is red.

The frame drops we are experiencing are minimal and don't occur that often. If we could just tell the unit to "ignore dropped frames" as you can in the log and capture of final cut, we could avoid having our recorders stop with out warning. The only time this really happens is when video is played back thru playback pro and the dvi output is converted to hd-sdi thru a mini converter or if there is a brief interupiton in the feed.

I really love the Ki Pro and it seems like these issuse could be easily fixed with some simple changes in the next firmware update.

AJA, I see you are frequently on these forums. I have emailed recently and haven't recieved a response.

Have any other users experienced similar issues?

Thanks!


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AJA Sales Department
Re: AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping
on Jun 10, 2011 at 8:26:14 pm

The Ki Pro and Ki Pro Mini both provide defaults where the clip names use standard, pre-configured parameters. Clip names that are produced under the standard clip naming structure are "Clip1TK1" or, if the user elects via menu parameter selections, they can create more complicated names such as "SC1ATK1" when working with the standard clip naming. In both of these scenarios, the take numbers auto-increment for each successive take. Using the standard clip naming structure, the next take will be automatically incremented; "Clip1TK2" or "SC1ATK2" using the examples supplied above. Using the standard clip naming, there is no chance that a clip can ever be overwritten as auto incrementing of the take number always takes place.

Using the custom clip naming convention, with it's associated default settings, allows the user to create their own custom name for the clips as well as incrementing take numbers. The default value is "CUSTOM" for the custom clip name, but the user can enter a wide range of alphanumeric values and each take is appended by an underscore and a take number by default, and example of a custom clip name using the default custom clip naming defaults would be something like "Flying_2". However, some users did not want to have an auto incrementing take value appended to their clip name (this was specifically asked for by some DITs) and so AJA allows the user, via one of the menu parameters, to disable the auto incrementing take number appended to the name. This means that the clip name produced can be something as customized as "V1E6SC4TKSER" or "MCU Tower", etc. without any appending of the clip name with an auto incrementing take number. The AJA Ki Pro Mini operation manual tries to make it explicitly clear that you must change the name of the file being produced if you disable the auto incrementing otherwise you could overwrite an existing clip. You can refer to page 33 of the Ki Pro Mini operation manual for explicit instructions and the warning about disabling the auto incrementing:
http://www.aja.com/pdf/AJA_Ki_Pro_Mini_Manual_v2.5.pdf

Since users seem to not always fully understand the meaning of the custom clip take parameter once they have enabled the custom clip name structure, or have never read the manual regarding the operation or significance of this parameter, it is quite likely that the ability to fully customize the clip name without an appended take number will be removed in an upcoming firmware update by AJA. AJA appreciates user feedback and in some cases will alter operations based on this feedback. However, with any device - AJA or otherwise - fully reading and understanding operational guidelines before using a product is highly recommended.

The Ki Pro and Ki Pro Mini were designed to be paired with cameras as acquisition devices, and as such, they were designed to cease recording if video was lost or disrupted and alert the user. When a video signal is disrupted, there are significant complications if a recorder continues recording such as a/v sync issues, timecode value mismatches with the source, genlock issues, etc. Since users want to record through a loss of video because they are essentially trying to use the Ki Pro or Ki Pro Mini not as an acquisition device but as a VTR replacement, it is likely that in the future AJA may provide the ability for the user to elect to record through a loss of video. There are currently ways to avoid such scenarios now by using devices like frame syncs in-line prior to the Ki Pro or Ki Pro Mini.

If you have any additional operational questions or concerns, we would encourage you to contact AJA Technical Support for assistance. Please note regarding your comment about your email not being replied to: while it happens fairly infrequently, occasionally emails are flagged as spam or simply do not reach us for any range of electronic miscommunication reasons. In such cases, if you do not receive a reply within the same day you send your email, it may be wise to contact AJA via phone between 9am and 5pm PST Monday through Friday.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Seth Lesko
Re: AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping
on Jun 10, 2011 at 8:54:10 pm

Thanks for the Prompt Response, AJA! If you guys could take these issues into consideration during the next firmware update, I know myself and many of my colleagues would be very appreciative.

The Ki is a great device and we want to continue to use them on our shows! We will be looking forward to this in a future firmware update!


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Gary Snyder
Re: AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping
on Jun 24, 2011 at 11:51:58 pm

We've reported this problem in November of last year..


http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/269/1010

And as of yet, AJA is not taking the time to correct the problem.

I understand your needs exactly. Why add a Frame Sync to the path
if not necessary. It adds additional processing, delay and cost.

ISO reels are off by a frame - time code..

"The AJA is a field acquisition tool, not a video recorder"..
you have got to be kidding me.. It needs to be a recorder.

DVCPRO-HD, XDCAM, P-2 continue to record without any of these glitches.

Because of this, we are moving to the new Sound Devices PIX-240
which has been tested, and works exactly as needed.

It features a built in monitor, ability to record to CF cards..

Wasn't the KiPro supposed to do CF cards..? OH-Yeah... they're getting around to it.. OK...

And it records to SSD or external drives via eSata..
no need to buy proprietary KiPro drives...

Records Apple Pro Res and AVID HD-DNX...

Best of all, similar price to the KiPro.... NO-BRAINER.

BTW... we have 8 AJA KI-PRO's for sale..
(They work perfectly - wink, wink, )

for more details, contact me at GaryS@clarkmedia.com

Gary C. Snyder
President / Engineer
Clark Media
610-694-9800
HD rentals in New York and Philadelphia
Panasonic, Sony and Arri Alexa


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Matt Bucy
Re: AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping
on Jan 25, 2012 at 5:44:09 pm

same problem. has happened on two different ki pro mini's. very frustrating.

Matt Bucy
DIrector of Photography
http://www.mattbucy.com


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Seth Lesko
Re: AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping
on Jan 25, 2012 at 6:26:54 pm

AJA,

If you are reading this forum, I think you may be highly underestimating the popularity of the standard size ki pro as a VTR replacement. Although you state that this was not the intended use of this project, this is the most common use I have seen this product used for. Even in an article on your site where a guy used 6 recorders for ISO and program records on MTV spring break.

http://www.aja.com/pdf/Ki_Pro_in_Action_web.pdf

I was most disappointed to see that you have virtually abandoned the Ki pro and only allowed critical updates such as enabling meta data recording from RED one and EPIC camera systems and the ability to record DNxHD for the ki pro mini.

This Devices is a preferred system in the live event world over the Black magic recorders (no analog audio, no standard recording codecs. Or the sound devices 552 ( way to really rack mont and access drive easily).

I really encourage you to take a second look at this system and not abandon it. It is a key asset in the live event world!


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AJA Sales Department
Re: AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping
on Feb 14, 2012 at 7:42:15 pm

Please visit the post in this forum related to the latest release of firmware, version 3.0, found here:
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/269/1827

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Matt Holmes
Re: AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping
on Sep 10, 2015 at 8:14:55 am

I am running firmware 5.0.0.12 and have just experienced this same annoying function of the "custom clip take".
For the life of me i cant understand why a warning doesn't appear when changing the selection from default and/or a warning appear when starting record to inform that you will overwrite your previous recording.

I see the first post to this thread was in 2011. What change was made since then to this issue?

Matt H.
Video Enginner


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Annette Harlow
Re: AJA ki pro Deleting files and Record stopping
on Jul 9, 2011 at 2:51:43 am

Seth

I also have experienced the issue of deleted files. Shortly after the new version came out (09/20/10) I used 5 KiPros on an event. We followed the instructions in the manual regarding "Custom Clip Take". After a break during the event we started recording again - and lost all previous clips!
The problem was that the manual for Version 2.0 published on 09/20/10 had an error. It stated that the default for "Custom Clip Take" was "Off - Enable Defining of Custom Clip Take" (p.41). So, according to the manual you had to turn it "Off" to "Enable" it, in order to prevent the deletion of previously recorded clips.
We contacted Aja the next day and after a brief exchange of emails, Aja realized that the manual was wrong and released a new manual that day.
You need to check the publish date on the first page of your manual because if you go to Aja website and go to download the manual it's still listed (as of today, 07/08/11) as "Ki Pro Installation and Operation Manual Version 2.0 (9/20/10)" So anyone who downloaded the manual between 09/20/10 and 10/31/10 may not realize that a newer "correct" version is available. If the first page of your manual states "Published 09/20/10" - you need to download the latest one.

Annette Harlow



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