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Mark Rule
Timecode issues
on Mar 19, 2011 at 11:50:35 pm

I seem to be having a few issues with timecode! Apologies if I have missed any discussion on the problem below in other threads - please point me in the right direction.

Running KiPro firmware version 2.0.0.125 on 2 KiPro's. Working in 625i 25 (41.1).

KiPro #1 is master record with 'TC In' set to 'Time of Day' (8.0)

KiPro #2 is iso/backup record - 'TC In' set to 'LTC'

KiPros are connected via coax cable from LTC Out on KiPro #1 to LTC In on KiPro #2. And for the purposes of this, KiPro #2 is being fed SDI In from the SDI Out on KiPro #1 - although in a real situation it may be fed with a different camera as an ISO.

KiPro #2 is also set to 'TC/REC KEY' on the 'Arm Recording' setting (8.3).


All works fine if you play back a clip on KiPro #1 - KiPro #2 starts recording and the timecode is synced - ie KiPro #2 records a copy of the file being played back from KiPro #1 - all good.

But when KiPro #1 is in record mode - recording a signal from a camera/mixer etc - KiPro #2 does nothing ie doesn't start recording - and if the record button is manually pushed, the timecode bears no relation to the timecode on KiPro #1 (the master record set on TOD).

It would seem that KiPro #1 is not outputting TC on the LTC Out when in Record.

I have also tried things the other way around - ie swapping the KiPros - but same result.

I haven't tried the earlier firmware - yet.


I have read through this thread -

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/269/422

and this is essentially what I need to do - but its obviously not working in my situation.

I have tried feeding my camera with the LTC Out from the KiPro. The camera receives no TC when the KiPro is recording - but does when the KiPro is in Playback - so it definitely seems to be a case of no Timecode present when recording.

Is this a problem with the 2.0.0.125 firmware?

If anyone has successfully done this with 2.0.0.125 please let me know.

Thanks,

Mark


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Mark Rule
Re: Timecode issues
on Mar 20, 2011 at 2:31:01 am

Just tried firmware 1.1.1.11 - no difference. Timecode only appears on the LTC Out connector on playback - nothing when Recording.

I hope I'm missing something simple here - will keep digging.

Mark


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AJA Sales Department
Re: Timecode issues
on Mar 20, 2011 at 2:44:03 am

Mark,
We do not recommend looping LTC timecode from one Ki Pro to another during recording; the Ki Pro was designed to generate output LTC timecode during playback, but not necessarily during recordings.

A better approach to your particular workflow would be to consider using a timecode generator and a timecode distribution amplifier; by using a dedicated timecode generator and a timecode distribution amplifier to send signals to multiple recording devices, there is little chance that there will be delay or offset between timecode values on each of the devices.

If you have further questions or need assistance with this, feel free to contact AJA Technical Support by phone during regular business hours Monday through Friday between 9am and 5pm PST or via email.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Mark Rule
Re: Timecode issues
on Mar 20, 2011 at 2:59:59 am

Ok, so was I misinterpreting that other thread:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/269/422

It seemed to imply that it was possible:

'[Michael Craven] "I need to know if it's possible to use 1 of the KiPros as my master TC generator and have the others sync to it."

Yes, via LTC this is totally possible.

[Michael Craven] "If I set the "master" KiPro to freerun TC, will it continuously send TC out of the LTC port or only when it is in rec mode?"

Only in Rec, but it doesn't matter as you can use the one Ki to control the rest of the Ki's...read on.

[Michael Craven] "Also, where in the KiPro config would I specify the framerate for the TC?"

Menu number 8.0. You can choose tc in where you can enter the tc value (but only in whole number of hours, so 01:00:00:00 - 23:00:00:00), SDI rp188, LTC or time of day. For the time of day, you can set that parameter in menu 55.6. Once you have that set, you can run 'LTC out' to 'LTC in', in series to each KiPro and turn the other 5 KiPros tc source to LTC and to arm on tc. So that way, you hit record on the maser Ki, and the rest will follow.'



Are you saying this is not the case at all? It certainly isn't working for me.

It would be a very useful feature - especially in the case where you have a master record - and backup or an iso record of another camera. For a simple setup like this it would be nice to be able to do it without the need for a separate TC generator etc.

Thanks,

Mark


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AJA Sales Department
Re: Timecode issues
on Mar 20, 2011 at 3:15:34 am

The configuration mentioned in the other thread isn't recommended; a dedicated timecode generator and a timecode distribution amplifier are recommended to avoid any possible issues with looping timecode from device to device.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Mark Rule
Re: Timecode issues
on Mar 20, 2011 at 5:01:57 am

Ok, so I can feed the KiPro's TC from another TC source (Generator/Camera etc) via a distribution amp.

Of course, the 'TC/REC KEY' (8.3) option won't work - as they will be being fed continuous Time of Day timecode - so each KiPro will have to be put into record manually (or via Gang record function).

Was hoping to keep the infrastructure to a minimum - ie no extra boxes, laptops etc.

S0...

- No TC output on the LTC Out when in Record - only Playback

- An external TC source fed into 'LTC In' does appear to loop through to 'LTC Out' though. So it would be possible to loop from one KiPro to another from a single TC source fed into the 'LTC In' - but this is not recommended, best to use a distribution amp.

Mark


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Timecode issues
on Mar 20, 2011 at 10:39:38 pm

[Mark Rule] "Ok, so was I misinterpreting that other thread:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/269/422"


...and that is my fault. Very sorry to confuse, at the time I was mistaken I didn't know that the Ki wouldn't generate tc in such a fashion. I am sorry for that.

But I do know now that using a tc generator is the way to go.

As far as recoding goes, if you can hook your KiPro's up to a "network" infrastructure and a computer, you can use the gang recording function to control both KiPro's at once. It will help to control the free run tc start/stop. it is recommended that hard wired ethernet be used for the Gang Record function and to turn off wireless on the KiPros when using gang record.

Again, I apologize for posting the earlier misinformation. I try my hardest not to do that.

Jeremy


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Mark Rule
Re: Timecode issues
on Mar 21, 2011 at 12:31:20 am

No problem. I expected TC would be there pretty much all the time on LTC Out - so it was a bit of a surprise when it wasn't.

I still think it would be a useful feature for the KiPro's - I don't know if its a hardware or firmware limitation - or both - but I'd like to see AJA add it to the KiPro.

Mark


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