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KI-PRO stops recording

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Shane Hunt
KI-PRO stops recording
on Oct 2, 2010 at 5:42:51 pm

Hello,

We have started using the Kipro in our satellite and fiber transmission facility. Our main use of the Kipro is to have a back up record of our transmissions in case we need to do a re-feed. But, the Kipro seems to have a mind of its own, and stops recording on us. The most stable solution that we have found so far is to set the genlock to free run, and time code in to LTC, but it still stops recording.

Has anyone else experienced issues like this while trying to use it as a VTR?

Thanks,
Shane


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Oct 2, 2010 at 8:13:07 pm

What do you have the "arm record" function set for? tc/rec or rec only?

What format? How long is the recording?

Jeremy


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Shane Hunt
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Oct 2, 2010 at 9:10:29 pm

Hello Jeremy,

Thanks for your reply. The record arm is set to rec only, we are feeding timecode into the kipros via our in house TC generator.

We are recording in the ProRes422HQ format, with 500 gig drives and the drive is no where near 10%. Some records the kipro will not stop for the entire time of approximately 4 hours, but others they will stop after 10 minutes, 50 minutes, etc.

Shane


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Brian Walker
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Oct 4, 2010 at 4:15:44 pm

I had this exact same thing happen on a live record of a show. Luckily I had ISO's to rebuild the program rec that kept stopping!

The Fix?: Here is what I surmised.... Somehow the unit that stopped was in ProResHQ, and I was only sending SD.
Once I put the unit back into regular ProRes it worked flawlessly!

Thanks in advance!
Brian Walker


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Kevin Christopher
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Oct 2, 2010 at 9:09:53 pm

If the KI Pro loses video signal it will stop recording. This is what i see the most. If your video feed is not stable, or goes on and off then you will have this problem.

Kevin



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AJA Sales Department
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Oct 2, 2010 at 9:50:45 pm

Shane, Jeremy and Kevin,
There are three conditions, by design, where the Ki Pro will stop a recording:
1) Ki Pro detects a loss of video or does not detect video because no signal is connected or is an invalid type. This feature prevents Ki Pro from recording glitched or compromised video as a QuickTime and is meant to alert the user to problematic signal. A WARNING prompt would appear on the front panel in such situations.
2) The Ki Pro Arm Recording parameter is set to arm via TC/REC Button and the timecode is starting and stopping either as intended from the source or unintentionally because the timecode has a disruption and is \"flickering\". No prompt appears in such a situation as there isn\'t a way to determine intended or unintended TC value changes.
3) The Storage Module reaches the 10% remaining capacity and prompts \"WARNING MEDIA Full\". This protects against disk errors due to seeks being compromised on filled disks. Again a prompt appears.

There are other relatively rare conditions where Ki Pro could stop recording, such as a disk i/o error (not dropped frames, but directory, IOPS level errors, etc.). Disk level errors might be beyond the scope of Ki Pro to diagnose. The recommendation would be to backup the data and reformat the media via the MEDIA menu parameter on the Ki Pro.

The SSD modules are of course unaffected by vibration, but the spinning units (250GB and 500GB) can be affected by extreme vibrations or high decibel situations where a spinning media would typically be affected by such phenomenon.

Finally, there is the possibility that the source video is overly compressed and degraded before reaching the Ki Pro for encoding. Yes, a satellite feed could be degraded sufficiently to be overly complex to encode. If the video being fed to Ki Pro is a bit compromised, you might consider updating to the latest 2.0 firmware released this week on at least one of your units as an effort was made to make Ki Pro more forgiving of compromised source signals; to be clear, no changes were made to the ProRes encoding, simply to what was considered valid incoming video.

If none of these suggestions seem to answer the question, please don\'t hesitate to contact AJA technical support on Monday.

Hope this is helpful.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Marc Colemont
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Oct 2, 2010 at 11:07:12 pm

First of all it are the best recorders I have ever seen or worked with
It might be by design, but it doesn't act as any other video recorder would do. It has freaked out both me and my customers. To a point were I needed to find a solution as otherwise one client did not want me to bring my 4 KiPro's anymore.
If the User doesn\'t stop recording it is very frustrating finding out that footage has been lost due real life conditions during a captation.
A cable can have glitch, a cameraman on stage needs to swap his battery. A steadicam drops a frame on his wireless transmitter. It should just keep recording. We don\'t care if the frames are black or have unreadable image during that event. As long as it keeps recording frames during the event, rather then finding out later it just stopped recoring by itself.
Currently I connect the KiPro\'s which ingest the mobile camera\'s on stage, through AUX connections of my mixer. As the mixer keeps generating steady frames while signals possibly glich.


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Kevin Christopher
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Oct 4, 2010 at 1:13:12 am

[AJA Sales Department] "The SSD modules are of course unaffected by vibration, but the spinning units (250GB and 500GB) can be affected by extreme vibrations or high decibel situations where a spinning media would typically be affected by such phenomenon."


.50 Cal gunfire, Rocket launchers, and being too close to explosions. all knocked the red drive out also. Good thing there is solid state for these situations.

KC



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Patrick Sproule
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Nov 7, 2010 at 7:32:18 pm

We have experienced the frustration of this as well. We are using KiPro's as backup recorders in our OB truck. The cameras all run HD over fibre and very occasionally if a connector is not mated correctly or is dirty we can have a signal dropout. Unfortunately the vision mixer passes this right through and the Ki Pro drops out of record. Our master recorder (Mac Pro with Decklink) does not stop, and nor does our 3 Play. I would love to have the option to set this - "record no matter what". Might not be particularly simple though.


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Ron Pestes
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Nov 16, 2010 at 1:25:53 am

We have had problems with the 500 gig drive. When shooting with the 128 gig drive there were no problems but as soon as we changed to the 500 we started dropping frames and it stopped recording. This happened many times and made our recording useless. We finally got the 128 gig drive downloaded and used it again with no problems. Any ideas?

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Marc Colemont
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Nov 16, 2010 at 7:12:58 am

I think this is another problem, then the recording which stops as soon as one video frame is not received right.
Your 500GB drive is it 7200RPM?


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Richard Crowley
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Nov 16, 2010 at 8:32:27 am

"I think this is another problem, then the recording which stops as soon as one video frame is not received right.
Your 500GB drive is it 7200RPM?"

It is my Ki Pro that Ron is referring to. It worked perfectly with the 250GB drive that it came with. Couldn't be happier. But when we switched to the 500GB drive, it stopped about 10 times at random intervals with all the buttons flashing and the warning "Dropped Frames" (I think that was the message.)

When we switched back to the 250GB drive, the problems stopped. There is zero evidence that it has anything to do with settings or the input signal since these did not change between the two drives. The source was the output of my Panasonic AW-HS50 switcher.

The 500GB drive was the one that AJA provided. One can only assume that they put the proper drive in the box. I intend to return the drive as defective under warranty since it was the very first time I had powered it up and used it. Needless to say, it rather ruined what would have been a marvelous first experience with the KiPro.


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Marc Colemont
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Nov 16, 2010 at 9:03:05 am

'Dropped frames', yes then I would to send back the drive.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Nov 16, 2010 at 12:41:50 pm

I assume you formatted the drive using the KiPro before hitting record?


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Richard Crowley
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Nov 16, 2010 at 3:29:50 pm

"I assume you formatted the drive using the KiPro before hitting record?"

Well, it does not record otherwise, so we can assume that I did that.


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David Vespoint
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Jan 21, 2011 at 6:39:36 pm

We had the same problem last night.

Our workflow....
Sony XDCam camera, using the HD-SDI out to the KiPri at 1080i (note SDI out will not send 720 though the XDCam will record to disc at 720)

KiPRo Set to record at ProResHQ, 720P.

After a minute of recording, "dropped frames" message.

Today we tried to recreate the error and couldn't! All the same gear in the setup.

We did discover that if you have the KiPro changing resolutions (1080 to 720P recording) AND downconverting the output to SD, it will not work. Only one conversion at a time.

This is not the first time we have had the "dropped frames" error issue. And we format the drives in the KiPRo before use.
DV

__________________________________________________________
"Television without a picture is radio. Television without sound is furniture." - source unknown


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Wieland Schopohl
Re: KI-PRO stops recording
on Sep 16, 2011 at 5:32:37 pm

Hi Shane,

I posted this text before in another Cow Thread and I hope it doesn't get banned.

Here's a little solution to this problem for some of you.

The AJA Ki Pro (and maybe Ki Pro mini as well - unfortunatly I don't have one to test it) can be controlled via Ethernet.

Therefore I wrote a little application that automatically controls several Ki Pro's and if one of them stopped recording it will automatically put it back in record mode.

It's only kind of a Beta version, because for example I just have one Ki Pro to test it on, but it seems to work fine. Another problem is, that there's a little pause between a stop and record (about 200 milliseconds and bigger).

You can find this application here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ajakipromonitor/

It should run just fine on any platform as long as you got Java Runtime installed which you can download here:
http://www.java.com

The application is, of course, tottaly free - use it at your own risk.


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