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How to control the KiPro via RS-422?

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Torben Suhrke
How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Sep 30, 2010 at 12:29:32 pm

Hello everybody,

I've just installed the new firmware update 2.0. After that I tried using the KiPro as a controllable VTR-Deck via the new RS-422 feature. Here is my setup:

MacBookPro running FCP 7.0 feeding a 720p50 ProRes timeline into an AJA IO HD. The IO HD is connected to the KiPro via SDI and RS-422.

The purpose of this setup is to do high-quality HD to SD downconversion. This was of course possible before, but now we can do it frame accurate and with timecode.
My problem is that I can't get the device control to work. There is no device control preset in FCP for the KiPro. I've tried various combinations in the device control preset editor, but FCP just won't communicate correctly with the KiPro.

Has anybody figured out yet how to set this up in FCP?

Best regards,
Torben Suhrke


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Sep 30, 2010 at 1:50:00 pm

Yes.

You need to put the kipro in to remote only mode.

Do you have the network GUI or do you use the menus on the unit itself?

If GUI it's on the config screen under 9 pin remote

If using menus, it's parameter 35.2

I should add you don't need a special setup in FCP, just use the Iohd 720p50 easysetup in whatever ProRes flavor you want.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Sep 30, 2010 at 2:36:11 pm

Also, you are performing an edit to tape in fcp, right?


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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Sep 30, 2010 at 4:06:19 pm

Yes, I did perform an "edit to tape".

Here is how I got it working:

I followed your advice and used the easy setup "AJA IoHD-720p50 Prores".
Then I copied the "AJA IoHD:25 Panasonic VTR" device control setting.

I edited this setting and changed the framerate to 50. I also removed all the offsets and set the pre/post roll to 1 second.

In the "edit to tape" window I set the In-Point to 01:00:00:00 (the same as my timeline) and performed an assemble edit.
The KiPro takes a few moments to react, but then it starts recording after the 1 second preroll.
It works like a charme.

Thanks for the quick reply Jeremy.

Have a nice day.

Torben


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Sep 30, 2010 at 4:10:43 pm

[Torben Suhrke] "Then I copied the "AJA IoHD:25 Panasonic VTR" device control setting."

You can simply choose this from the drop down in the ETT window, in the device settings tab.

[Torben Suhrke] "The KiPro takes a few moments to react, but then it starts recording after the 1 second preroll.
It works like a charme."


Yes, it's very nice, isn't it?

Jeremy


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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 1, 2010 at 8:25:59 am

UPDATE:

Upon closer inspection of the recorded file, I noticed that the first 4 frames are duplicates of the first frame of my timeline. So the process isn't really frame accurate. I tried to compensate with the "capture offset" setting, but this value is ignored by the KiPro.
Anybody experienced the same behaviour?

Torben


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AJA Sales Department
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 1, 2010 at 12:24:31 pm

Torben,
For Edit to Tape you should not be changing the Capture Offset, but instead the Playback Offset in the Device Control Preset Editor.
For further help in configuring Final Cut Pro for use with the Ki Pro and Edit to Tape, you should feel free to contact AJA technical support via email or phone.

Hope this is helpful.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 1, 2010 at 1:03:44 pm

Thank you for the suggestion.

I'm afraid the next test has to wait until next week, but I will post my findings as soon as possible.

Have a nice weekend.

Torben


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 1, 2010 at 2:34:28 pm

Torben, just curious if you're having the iohd or the Ki do the downconvert?

I was going to look at this today.

Jeremy


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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 1, 2010 at 2:43:59 pm

Hi Jeremy,

the IoHD handles the downconversion. I was under the impression that the two devices share the same scaling algorithms. Do you think there is a difference?

Torben


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 1, 2010 at 3:00:16 pm

No, just want to set it up as you have it, see what I see, then try a different way.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 1, 2010 at 7:13:36 pm

OK, I wasn't able to totally recreate your situation, but I used a Kona 3 to KiPro as my ioHD isn't connected to the machine room. I imagine the results between the two will be similar. When letting the Kona do the conversion, I found basically what you found and that is some weirdness with the first few frames or 4.

When setting the KiPro to do the down convert, everything was spot on.

Give that a shot and see if that works better.

Config > In Convert > SD in the KiPro.

Jeremy


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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 3, 2010 at 12:43:27 pm

No luck, yet. The same duplicate frames show up when I let the KiPro do the conversion. I also played around with the "playback offset" parameter in the device control settings, but it is also ignored by the KiPro.

Thanks again for taking the time to set up your gear for recreating my problem. Much appreciated.

Torben


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 3, 2010 at 3:36:50 pm

Hmm. Sorry Torben. I'll hook up the ioHD tomorrow and see if I can recreate the issue.

What's the first thing in your timeline? Meaning, describe what your timeline looks like.

Also, when you make changes in the device control preset, you are sure that's the preset selected when performing the ETT?

And (sorry for the edits) what drivers are installed on your ioHD? What kind of system do you have (computer/hard drive/etc)?



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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 4, 2010 at 11:15:44 am

As soon as I realized there are duplicate frames at the beginnig, I superimposed some numbers at the start of the timeline to keep track of what is going on.

I renamed the copied device control preset to "KiPro", so I can check in the ETT-dialog that I chose the correct one. Though I'm not quite sure if you have to restart final cut to make any changes come alive.

All drivers and software are up to date.

Today I tested a different setup: MacPro with internal Blackmagic Decklink HD Extreme connected to the KiPro.

Same result. 3 duplicate frames at the beginnig of the resulting file.
So it has to be a wrong setting in final cut or the kipro that is causing this behaviour.

Torben


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 4, 2010 at 3:03:57 pm

[Torben Suhrke] "Though I'm not quite sure if you have to restart final cut to make any changes come alive."

No, you just have to make sure that preset is selected in the ETT window.

[Torben Suhrke] "All drivers and software are up to date."

Firmware is up to date on the ioHD?

[Torben Suhrke] "So it has to be a wrong setting in final cut or the kipro that is causing this behaviour."

Can you please explain your timeline a bit? What is the first clip? Are you using the ETT window to layoff bars or black or anything? Is there a gap in your timeline near the beginning?

Jeremy


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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 4, 2010 at 4:39:54 pm

Oh, it's a very simple timeline. It consists of just one 30 second long clip. It's only purpose is to test this workflow.
I unchecked everything in the mastering tab of the ETT-window, because what I really want is just a downconverted file that mirrors my timeline so that further processing can take place. (e.g. sending to compressor and combining with different audiomixes)
No spaces or anything in the timeline.

Torben


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Gabriele Turchi
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 5, 2010 at 12:18:28 pm

Guys sorry if I cannot help with your duplicated frames ...
But I have a question regarding the RS422 and kipro:
Basically now the kipro act like a deck?
So tale the timecode over the 422?
Can it record for few few hours straight ?
Can it split the clip when the timecode break ?
The reason is because I am thinking to use it with SCRATCH for realtime dailies ...
Thanks

G


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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 5, 2010 at 1:56:51 pm

Hi Gabriele,

yes, the kipro acts like a deck and receives timecode via 422.
The recording duration depends on your chosen flavour of prores and the size of the hdd.
I'm not quite sure what happens on a timecode break during edit to tape, but theoretically you could work without deckcontrol and have the kipro start and stop recording whenever timecode is coming in. The parameter is called "arm recording" and can be set to tc. Then it should create a new clip whenever timecode is coming in. There might be a slight delay of a few frames before recording sets in.
I don't know if this workflow is applicable to your situation, though.

Greetz,
Torben


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Gabriele Turchi
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 5, 2010 at 2:04:57 pm

Thanks Torben,

but SCRATCH can layoff timecode only over the RS422 (actually now even over teh SDI but the device should support VANC data on teh SDI (does the kipro accept VANC ?)),
so over the RS422 scratch can operate only as connected to a deck ,
and the use of the kipro for my need would justified only if i can record like 2 hours straight of material without stop -pause-or reinsert TC...

Thanks

g


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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 6, 2010 at 9:02:04 am

Hello Gabriele,

in your specific situation it might be best, if you rent a kipro to test your workflow.

Torben


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 6, 2010 at 8:39:27 pm

OK, I finally got this setup today. 720p50 ioHD > 625i KiPro.

I had to modify the playback to +1 frame in device control and it's spot on. Device was based off of 25 Panasonic VTR.

Jeremy


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Torben Suhrke
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 1:26:09 pm

Great news, Jeremy!
Thanks to your efforts, I tried again.

My main mistake was to change the framerate to 50 in device control. When set to 25 and 1 frame playback offset the resulting file was down to one field offset. So I switched back to let the IOhd do the conversion and set playback offset to 2. After that it was spot on.

Thanks again for your patience and help.

Best regards,
Torben


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How to control the KiPro via RS-422?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 1:40:53 pm

Glad you're up and running.


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