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Transfer Times for KiPro

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Randy Burleson
Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 26, 2010 at 10:10:34 pm

What are the transfer times to dump off a Full media storage module to another Hard Drive?


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gary adcock
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 26, 2010 at 11:55:35 pm

That would depend on
Computer speed, speed of the drive you are coping too, speed of the connection to that drive, whether it is one single file or a drive full of 30 second spots.

An average laptop can move about 1GB of data per second across the bus, the problem is with the drives ability to write the data to the other volume.

Offloading a 250G drive via FW on my desktop to a 12 TB SAS array takes under 20 mins.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Randy Burleson
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 3:19:14 pm

I would probably be using an MBP laptop with an eSATA drive. or FW 800 minimum.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 3:45:37 pm

Your times will be similar to Gary's, a little slower perhaps. I'd say 25-30 minutes.

Remember the KiPro drive is just a fw800 drive. There are caveats like Gary mentioned, but in reality you are just transferring files from fw to fw or fw to eSata.

Jeremy


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Randy Burleson
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 3:58:09 pm

This is great...
I am looking to FINALLY make the transition to some sort of tapeless format.
I looked long and hard at P2 I love the AVC Intra 100 but the transfer and conversion times were 1.5 realtime or more. I need to be faster than realtime to justify moving from tape.
I know I don't HAVE TO transfer and can edit directly from the media module drives but We often shoot 6 to 8 hours of footage in a day over a period of 4 or 5 days. So I would need to transfer the media to an external hard drive to reuse the media modules during the shoot. These rates seem much faster than P2 or SxS media and are recorded in an immediately editable Pro Res format. I am will probably be docking this with a Sony EX3 or the Panasonic HPX-300. I know this forum is for KiPro but any recommendations or preferences between those 2 cameras? Would either one have an advantage over the other in regards to picture quality when working with KiPro?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 4:07:39 pm

We use the KiPro and also shoot AVC-I 100 from various Panasonic cameras.

I am a huge fan of both and they both serve different needs on particular shoots and in the studio.

I love AVC-I 100. Panasonic has done an excellent job. I would go the native 10bit route on the 300 as opposed to the EX3, but that's just me.

I also use software to access the native MXF files in FCP without having to log and transfer. It has been the best thing to happen to our FCP P2 workflow when we aren't using the KiPro. The KiPro workflow is by far the fastest and easiest tapeless workflow. We can't use it all the time, but when we do use it, it is totally awesome. It also serves me well in the studio for conversions/masters as well.

Jeremy


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Randy Burleson
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 4:12:50 pm

Jeremy, which software do you use and what are the transfer times for a 32GB Card? 64GB?
Do the E series cards make any difference in transfer times?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 4:22:02 pm

[Randy Burleson] "Jeremy, which software do you use"

MXF4mac QT Import. http://mxf4mac.com/index.php/quicktime-plug-ins.html

[Randy Burleson] "what are the transfer times for a 32GB Card? 64GB?"

We use ShotPut Pro to have verified offload to multiple drives at once using an PCD20 fw800 p2 card reader. (On a side note, I use Shotput pro to offload KiPro drives as well). It averages out to about 2 minutes a gig or so with redundancy and verification. It's never as fast as you want it to be, but the addition of the MXF4mac software really speeds up the whole process as you have immediate access to footage. I also use P2 Flow to log the MXF files quickly and easily (also available from MXF4mac).

Here's a tutorial I did before P2 Flow was available, and before native AVC-I was available to FCP. It gives you a sense of how fast the workflow is as opposed to log and transfer.

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/garchow_jeremy/dvc_pro_hd.php

[Randy Burleson] "Do the E series cards make any difference in transfer times?"

Not as much as Panasonic would like you to believe, but it does make a slight difference with our PCD20. The PCD35 is a really fast card reader, but it requires a PCIe slot (usually reserved for a MacPro). People have gotten it to work with a MBP, though, in various ways. It's not officially supported but it does work. Panasonic also has a 1 card reader that is less expensive than the 5 card readers, but then you are only doing one card at a time.

Sorry, I failed to mention that we also have a Sonnet Qio that is available to laptops. it works a treat but it is still not as fast as a PCD35 would be.

Jeremy


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Randy Burleson
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 6:01:59 pm

so if HD is roughly 1 gig per minute and it takes 2 minutes per gig.. we are looking at 2 x longer than real time.... I was hoping it would be much faster than that. That is why I was considering the KiPro to start with.
I really have to look at work flow speed advantages. If it isn't faster than digitizing tape then... I can't sell the advantages to management. I am trying to justify the change by saying that the digitizing process is consuming a huge amount of our time that we could be editing if we went to a tapeless format. At those transfer speeds, P2 doesn't seem to really give me that argument.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 6:04:57 pm

[Randy Burleson] "At those transfer speeds, P2 doesn't seem to really give me that argument."

Oh yes it does. It's way faster, even with transfer times.

Not a gig a minute of footage, but rather a gig a minute of file size. 100 Gigs of footage, =100 minutes transfer time.

We have and use both AVc-I and the KiPro ProRes files. It's so much faster than tape.


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Randy Burleson
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 6:13:50 pm

"Not a gig a minute of footage, but rather a gig a minute of file size. 100 Gigs of footage, =100 minutes transfer time."


Isn't that the same thing in AVC Intra 100? 1 minute equals 1 Gig of file size?
Please explain to me how 2 minutes transfer time per minute of footage is faster than real time?

Am I missing something? Did I misunderstand something? Sorry if I did... I just want to understand.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 6:30:22 pm

[Randy Burleson] "Isn't that the same thing in AVC Intra 100? 1 minute equals 1 Gig of file size?"

Depends on the format and frame rate. At full size and frame rate (so 1080i60 and 720p60) yes. When shooting pN formats (1080pN24 and 720pN24) the file sizes are less.

When shooting a 64 or 32 Gigs P2 card, we get more than 64 or 32 minutes of footage.

It's still way faster than tape. Logging and capturing is arduous (and slower than real time). And with MXF4mac or KiPro footage, it is immediately accessible within FCP. The KiPro is even faster than P2.

Jeremy


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Randy Burleson
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 6:35:05 pm

Thanks Jeremy! I guess the immediately accessible files was the part I was missing.
I wasn't trying to be argumentative, but just trying to understand where the time savings were.

You mentioned earlier that there are certain times that you can't use the Ki Pro. What are the scenarios that are not practical to use KiPro ?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Transfer Times for KiPro
on Aug 27, 2010 at 6:37:34 pm

[Randy Burleson] "What are the scenarios that are not practical to use KiPro ?"

We don't use if for handheld stuff. You could, but we don't. It really depends on the shoot. It has nothing to do with quality, more with practicality.

i son't know if you shoot any green screen, but the Kipro is totally sweet for green screen.


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