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Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming

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Vincent Caravella
Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 9, 2010 at 11:40:05 pm

Hi there,

I'm having a bit of an issue and I hope I'm missing something obvious instead of chalking this one up to "computers behaving badly."

When I bring footage into Final Cut Pro that has been captured with my Ki Pro I am able to work fine until I want to Media Manage.

At that point Final Cut is not deleting unused media from anything that was captured using the Ki Pro. Usually when this happens, it means someone has forgotten to add a Reel name to the piece of captured footage, but in this case the Ki Pro does, in fact, have data in the Reel field.

Now, here's the bigger issue. When I try to change the Reel data from Final Cut Pro it doesn't prompt me with the usual "You're about to edit..." but just changes the displayed Reel info. Renaming and reimporting the file confirms it didn't actually write any new data to the file itself. Furthermore, opening the file on another computer shows the old Reel name.

I've even tried opening the Ki Pro captures in QT Pro and deleting the Timecode track, but Final Cut Pro still won't write to or create a new one for any of the KiPro files when I change the Reel. It's like it can't edit any of the data in there.

Lastly, if I duplicate the file I get all the same issues, but if I re-export the file from either QT Pro or FCP, everything works as intended. I've tried working off of multiple drives, different computers with different installs of FCP, and even a different pair of hands in case I was just unlucky...but no dice. I've about exhausted everything I can think of, from permissions to drive formats.

I've even been able to change the Reel info using QtChange and have it stick, but FCP still won't Media Manage correctly or change the Reel from inside its browser. So it seems like it's having a problem communicating with the file on some level...just not sure how to solve it short of re-writing the footage each time I want to trim a project.

Any ideas? Sorry for the long post, and thanks for any responses.

-- Vinny

Footage is ProRes @ 720p

OS X 10.5.8
FCP 6.0.6
Ki Pro version 1.0.1


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 3:57:16 am

Funny you mention this as I was trying to Modify > Timecode on a clip the other day and it wouldn't stick to KiPro recorded files. Then I moved on and didn't have time to trouble shoot. Thanks for reminding me.

There must be something going on and I did the same thing you did and reexported with sequence tc set where I wanted it. They must be related.

Good catch and I am sure you have alerted AJA?

Jeremy


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Vincent Caravella
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 5:36:35 pm

Ha, well I'm kind of glad it's not just me...but also kind of saddened.

I haven't contacted AJA yet, as I was hoping someone might have a quick fix or that I was doing something bonkers.

Thanks again,
Vinny


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 5:41:04 pm

I have spoken with AJA and they are actively working on a fix.

It wouldn't hurt if you sent them a support note as well.

Jeremy


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gary adcock
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 6:40:13 pm

[Vincent Caravella] "When I bring footage into Final Cut Pro that has been captured with my Ki Pro I am able to work fine until I want to Media Manage.
At that point Final Cut is not deleting unused media from anything that was captured using the Ki Pro. Usually when this happens, it means someone has forgotten to add a Reel name to the piece of captured footage, but in this case the Ki Pro does, in fact, have data in the Reel field. "


Vinny

I wonder, this is the same for R3D and ArriRaw files, so I wonder if this is a flag that has been added to the QT stream to indicate that it is an original master file??

it is not an issue with the KiPro but more something with the way that FCP is internally flagging the content it sees?

and I am as stumped as the rest of you.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Bruce Greene
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 10:12:57 pm

I, or should I say, the director editor, has been having a similar problem media managing a movie captured with the I/O HD.

The media managed project seems to mostly work...except when it doesn't. Any clips with speed changes get all screwed up and the audio levels get all screwed up. He also reports some changes in the timeline clips.

Any thoughts if this is related to capturing 23.98fps with a Varicam to the I/O HD?

Varicam/Steadicam Owner
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.brucealangreene.com


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gary adcock
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 10:31:01 pm

[Bruce Greene] "I, or should I say, the director editor, has been having a similar problem media managing a movie captured with the I/O HD. "

No that would be the Media manager- not the file/device structure as defined in the header when written by the KiPro to disk.

Your computer would write a different header to the file it records.


[Bruce Greene] "Any clips with speed changes get all screwed up and the audio levels get all screwed up."

Com'on bruce how many years have you and I worked with Varicams???

your camera does not capture audio offspeed never has, Audio is captured at the base rate you are shooting - so you do the same thing, you need to separate the audio from video when doing speed changes -especially in fcp.
That levels bug with speed changes was fixed in 7.0 from what I understand.- are you current with your software?




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Bruce Greene
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 10:44:49 pm

[gary adcock] "[Bruce Greene] "Any clips with speed changes get all screwed up and the audio levels get all screwed up."

Com'on bruce how many years have you and I worked with Varicams???

your camera does not capture audio offspeed never has, Audio is captured at the base rate you are shooting - so you do the same thing, you need to separate the audio from video when doing speed changes -especially in fcp.
That levels bug with speed changes was fixed in 7.0 from what I understand.- are you current with your software?
"


Gary,

I'm not quite the nincompoop you think I am:)

The speed changed clips don't use any in-camera audio, just music and effects.

The directed just received the newest fcp from Apple, but is reluctant to update the software in the middle of the project. Would it be safe to do the upgrade? Would it help when we go to Apple color for the grading?

Would it fix the problem to render out all the off speed clips to new qt files and replace them in the timeline? I guess we'll have to do that anyway before sending to Apple Color.

Yours truly,
Amateur editor:)


Varicam/Steadicam Owner
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.brucealangreene.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 10:49:56 pm

[Bruce Greene] "Would it fix the problem to render out all the off speed clips to new qt files and replace them in the timeline?"

Yes.


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gary adcock
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 11, 2010 at 3:41:58 pm

[Bruce Greene] "I'm not quite the nincompoop you think I am:) "

I have never thought you were my friend, please no offense was intended.

"Yours truly, Amateur editor:) "

hence the reason for my comment, your shooting camera knowledge has never been the question, but I remember our first discussions on you trepidation about having to editing your own content to stay competitive on some projects.


"The speed changed clips don't use any in-camera audio, just music and effects. "
"Would it fix the problem to render out all the off speed clips to new qt files and replace them in the timeline? I guess we'll have to do that anyway before sending to Apple Color."

Even though you are not using original audio you have some how linked them in FCP , so that when processed, Media manager is doing the same thing as your camera does with offspeed.

YES - Pre-Render and output the speed changes as new Qt files will solve all of the current issues and allow Color to also handle the same files without issue.







gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Bruce Greene
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 11, 2010 at 5:08:52 pm

[gary adcock] "[Bruce Greene] "I'm not quite the nincompoop you think I am:) "

I have never thought you were my friend, please no offense was intended.
"


Gary, no offense was taken. I was trying to be lighthearted! :) :) :)

Thanks for your suggestions.



Varicam/Steadicam Owner
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.brucealangreene.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 10:31:47 pm

[Bruce Greene] "Any clips with speed changes get all screwed up and the audio levels get all screwed up."

Media manager has never been nice to speed changes.

[Bruce Greene] "Any thoughts if this is related to capturing 23.98fps with a Varicam to the I/O HD?"

No, I doubt this has anything to do with it.

Jeremy


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Ki Pro, FCP, and Reel Renaming
on Feb 10, 2010 at 10:26:17 pm

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread as we are starting to use a Ki Pro for capture in the field and this definitely puts a kink in the plan as we media manage almost all of our projects for archiving.

Hopefully this is a simple fix for AJA and they can have an update out soon.


-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



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