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HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA

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Allan Klingler
HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Dec 31, 2010 at 7:17:26 pm

I was running 4 GB in my KONA LHi. I would play a 3 minute movie with trasitions and audio and without fail it would crash my editor with content in 1080P. I suspect this is a RAM issue. So I have new RAM arriving on tuesday for my workstation to put me at 16 GB.

For those of you building content regularly in HD, how much RAM do you use and are there still occaisional surprises?

---------
Professional videography since 1996
http://www.tetonvideo.com


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Allan Klingler
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 4, 2011 at 5:28:23 pm

ok, I just installed my 16 GB worth of memory cards into my KONA, only to discover (and remember actually after examination) that my machine with WINDOWS XP only was using 2.5 GB of my existing 4 GB of RAM cards, sharring the video card memory with the operating system not to exceed 4 GB under that operating system.

So it appears I need to change operating systems to upgrade to Windows 7 to get better use of my existing RAM and use the additional amounts I installed into the slots.

Will there be any hickups in using Windows 7 with the KONA? How about use of Autodesk Combustion?

People using HD, what setups are you using? I have the SuperMicro motherboard listed on the AJA website. Thanks for any feedback.

---------
Professional videography since 1996
http://www.tetonvideo.com


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Michael Kammes
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 4, 2011 at 5:41:05 pm

I think the real issue here is OS and Application address space.

Let's use Windows as an example, as Mac OS is slightly different.

Most OSes are 32bit, which only allows for 4GB of RAM (roughly) to be used by the OS as well as an application. (I am using XP here as an example)

If the OS is 64bit, then you have a ton more space to play with, usually only limited by what the motherboard (and the OS itself) limits. A good rule of thumb is that most OSes today - if they are 64bit, SAY 64bit. if they don't, they are most likely 32.

In addition, if the application is only 32bit - even if you have it on a 64bit OS - the app can only access 4GB (again, roughly) of the available memory.

~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com


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Allan Klingler
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 4, 2011 at 6:27:23 pm

So, if I upgrade to 64 bit Windows 7, that would be my $120 fix to make it work, right? I hear Microsoft claims it is downward compatible with 32 bit software. Has anyone had any problems with this setup using industry standard video editing, compositing, disc authoring tools with this setup? The use of the RAM is my only real desired benefit.

---------
Professional videography since 1996
http://www.tetonvideo.com


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Michael Kammes
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 4, 2011 at 6:35:11 pm

first rule: verify the software is compatible with your OS. The manufacturer may not support it.

If the manufacturer supports it - great! However, the app may only be 32bit, which doesn't buy you much - other than the original 4GB can be used almost fully by the 32bit app (if written correctly) while the OS can use whatever RAM is available after the 4GB.

Windows 7 64bit runs 32bit apps fine.

I think you may be over thinking this. Virtually every video editing product and hardware explicitly layout what OSes, RAM and hardware make the software run as smoothly as possible. Attempting to reverse engineer this, too often, ends in disaster.

I don't know what your main app is...(Combustion?)

Combustion was last qualified (in 2008) for XP SP2 (32bit) Se PDF on this page:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=5562397


~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com


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Jeff Brown
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 5, 2011 at 3:27:11 pm

I recently upgraded to Win7 Pro (64 bit); I still use Combustion. Combustion works OK under this setup; of course it's still a 32 bit app, so you don't get to use any more memory than before. But: there is a 64-bit Kona(Xena) driver, so the framebuffer works. The main bug I've noticed is that Combustion does not remember UNC paths in the browser. It is OK to use them in comps and net-rendering, you just have to re-navigate when importing new footage. Or, you could just use mapped drive letters. This may be due to my network being without DHCP (I use a small workgroup). Sapphire plugins work, and I have not noticed any more crashes under Win7-64 than XP-32.

-Jeff


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Jeff Brown
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 5, 2011 at 3:29:17 pm

You don't mention which editing app you are using (unless I missed it). Playback is also dependent on healthy disc bandwith: I assume you have a RAID setup of some sort?

-Jeff


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Allan Klingler
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 5, 2011 at 4:05:26 pm

I use Combustion 4 to create composite content since I am really familiar with the app, and Premiere CS4 to edit. I do have a Medea Ultra 160 SCSI RAID but also use individual SATA A/V rated drives to store my source files. Premiere has been my hickup in playback of 1080P files, and the program will just hang during HD timeline play.

---------
Professional videography since 1996
http://www.tetonvideo.com


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Michael Kammes
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 5, 2011 at 4:20:43 pm

A few additional notes:

CS5 - and upgrade from CS4 - has a 64bit version of Premiere, if you decide to go with a 64bit OS.

Also, you have not mentioned what codec you are working with. If it's uncompressed, you're screwed - Ultra 160 SCSI or a single SATA drive won't handle it, so you best be capturing into a compressed codec.

~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com


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Allan Klingler
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 5, 2011 at 5:21:07 pm

Its good to hear that need for CS5 too for 64 bit support. Another surprise.

I believe my codec was .H261 or something.... and were 1980 X 1080 MOV files.

---------
Professional videography since 1996
http://www.tetonvideo.com


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Michael Kammes
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 5, 2011 at 5:34:03 pm

Dear Lord!

I think you may need to start from the beginning, this is unraveling by the post.

H.264 is NOT a good codec to edit with, and it's no wonder you're stuttering. H.264 looks good, and is lightweight in terms of file size and data rate but is horrible for editing and for use with NLEs. In fact, the fastest machines out there for both Avid and FCP do not guarantee 100% h.264 HD playback. Best bet is to transcode to a more easily editable codec.

I recommend you start from the beginning and state:

What Gear You have (CPU, RAM, RAID, software)
What file types you are dealing with (h.264, etc)
What problems you are experiencing and WHEN (capture, playback, etc).

I, too, sometimes jump the gun and inquire with pointed questions on issues, when sometimes explaining the issue in context can help immensely.

~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com


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Allan Klingler
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 5, 2011 at 6:20:57 pm

System Details:
SuperMicro X7DA8 Motherboard
Windows XP Service Pack 3 (will be upgrading to 64bit Windows 7)
Premeire CS 4 - Combustion 4
Dual Xeon E5440 2.83 GHz Processors
AJA Kona LHi w/ Break-Out Box
8 Sticks Kingston 4GB PC2 5300 CL5 ECC 240 Pin FB DIMM RAM
Sony Blu-ray Burner
Medea 19" Rack-Mounted Ultra 160 RAID External Storage
3 1000 GB Internal SATA A/V Drives
Multiple External USB 2.0 A/V Drives

So, since .H264 .mov is not timeline playback friendly, what should I use? I can convert things and work with it to make life easier and am not married to the format as long as whatever I replace it works for 1080P and is good with my editing system.

---------
Professional videography since 1996
http://www.tetonvideo.com


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Allan Klingler
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 5, 2011 at 7:11:35 pm

According to Tim at AJA, I should stop using the consumer format 1080) .H264 and should instead use .MOV files in the professional use 1080i 29.97 DVCPRO instead.

Thanks for prompting me about the need to change format. With all the industry buzz about 1080p and .H264 its easy to get caught up in things without having all the technical facts.

I'll get the Windows 7 64 bit update made when I can get a chance to do so.

I can't wait to test it out and get editing in HD after a long overdue delay to make the jump.

---------
Professional videography since 1996
http://www.tetonvideo.com


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Allan Klingler
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 9, 2011 at 12:45:03 am

I dumped the .H264 and instantly things have improved. I had to update my source files and that took a while to recapture everything, but its like a whole new system. I still need to do the software upgrade to take advantage of the RAM. Maybe next week... But its way better to have a workflow. It is sharp and crisp and beautiful. I am using the AJA 10 bit YUV CODEC in 1080i to edit with and then export the MPEG-2 files in .H264 for the deliverables. So far its awesome. Wish that would have been in the manual. Thanks guys!!!

---------
Professional videography since 1996
http://www.tetonvideo.com


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Michael Kammes
Re: HD 1080P : Feedback on RAM with the KONA
on Jan 9, 2011 at 12:51:23 am

Good to hear!

When you speak of us, speak well.

~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com


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