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io HD noob

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Scott Phillips
io HD noob
on Mar 15, 2011 at 8:57:26 pm

Hello all,

My colleagues and I are video novices--we've participated in FCP workshops, so we've got a good understanding of it, but we are weak on equipment.

We just purchased an io HD and I am trying to learn out to operate it. Our primary camera is an HVX200AP P2. I've connected it to the io HD via the component output. I'm able to use the "easy setup" settings in FCP and thus control the io HD.

My main issue at this point is that the signal (from the camera to the io hd) is 60 fps and I want the captured footage to be ProRes and 24 fps.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 15, 2011 at 10:14:49 pm

[Scott Phillips] "My main issue at this point is that the signal (from the camera to the io hd) is 60 fps and I want the captured footage to be ProRes and 24 fps."

Unfortunately with that camera, the only available connection is analog out. Since no information is carried over the analog signal about pulldown. the ioHD cannot remove it. If you have a camera that sent information via SDI, the ioHD would be able to remove the pulldown upon capture.

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 15, 2011 at 10:56:42 pm

Ahhh, I see. That makes sense, thanks Jeremy.

Well, can I shoot 720p, 24fps, copy the footage to the Mac and somehow use the io HD to convert all the footage from DVCPROHD to ProRes? Rather than using Compressor.

That is, is it possible to use the io hd to encode files from disc rather than from a camera?

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 16, 2011 at 2:27:20 pm

The ioHD dies it's magic through baseband video connections. It wasn't designed as a transcoded for existing video, although that had been requested frequently.

With that particular camera, you could shoot at 720p24 over 60 and capture and edit @ 59.94 fps. It will retain the 24p look, but the footage will have pulldown in it. An hpx170 with SDI would also solve this problem.

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 16, 2011 at 7:21:22 pm

So, it sounds as though we don't have a use for this ioHD as long as we're shooting with this camera that lacks the digital (HD-SDI) output.

Correct?

It was recommended to us, but we clearly didn't know enough about it, and I think the person recommending it wasn't clear on our equipment. I was just hoping it would be a timesaver with ingesting all our footage as ProRes so we've be ready to edit in FCP without constant rendering.

thanks for your help.

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 16, 2011 at 7:25:26 pm

[Scott Phillips] "So, it sounds as though we don't have a use for this ioHD as long as we're shooting with this camera that lacks the digital (HD-SDI) output.

Correct?"


Like I mentioned, you can use it to record 720p59.94 with the 200, and you can also use it to monitor your FCP timeline to a broadcast monitor.

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 16, 2011 at 7:41:39 pm

But, if I want to do 720p24 with the hvx200, I'll simply have to log and transfer and therefore bypass the ioHD, right?

In my testing, I've set the camera for 720p24, but regardless of the settings, it always comes in at 59.
94--I guess it's due to the analog signal and not having the pulldown in place.

You aren't saying there is a way for me to get the 24fps film look with this camera and the ioHD are you? 'Cause, ultimately, that's what I'm trying to achieve.

And yes, I'd love to use the ioHD to view our timeline on a monitor, but haven't figured that out yet.

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 16, 2011 at 8:03:28 pm

[Scott Phillips] "But, if I want to do 720p24 with the hvx200, I'll simply have to log and transfer and therefore bypass the ioHD, right?"

If you need 24p files, yes. You need to shoot 24pN on the camera.

[Scott Phillips] "You aren't saying there is a way for me to get the 24fps film look with this camera and the ioHD are you? 'Cause, ultimately, that's what I'm trying to achieve."

Yes, set your camera to 720p24 and record @ 59.94. This will record 24p with progressive 3:2 pulldown. It retains the 24p look, you will just be editing on 59.94 timeline.


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 16, 2011 at 8:13:43 pm

OK--I think I see now. So even though all indications are that the "stream" into and out of the ioHD is 59.94, and my footage in my bin is 59.94 and the timeline is 59.94, I can see there are duplicate frames in the clip and this is the pulldown that will give me the "film" look.

Correct?

How does this compare to 24pN? I don't quite understand this setting. If I'm not overcranking or undercranking, would I use it?

I apologize for all the questions--this forum has been a huge help.

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 17, 2011 at 4:14:22 pm

[Scott Phillips] "I can see there are duplicate frames in the clip and this is the pulldown that will give me the "film" look."

The "film" look comes from 24p, not the pulldown specifically. The pulldwon just pads the material so it's viewable/playable over 59.94 baseband video.

[Scott Phillips] "How does this compare to 24pN? I don't quite understand this setting. If I'm not overcranking or undercranking, would I use it? "

24pN captures just the 23.98 frames you need. So instead of the files being 59.94 (24p with pulldown), they would be 23.98 and you'd edit on a 23.98 timeline. If your camera had HD SDI, you could capture 23.98 as the ioHD could remove the pulldown on capture.

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 17, 2011 at 4:48:21 pm

OK--thanks.

So, if I proceed with 24p footage in a 60p timeline, when the project is completed and I'm authoring a SD DVD, Compressor will analyze what I send over from the timeline and it will pull out the duplicate frames and get it to the frame rate required for a DVD?

Or would I need to reverse telecine?

On another subject, if I use the ioHD to display my timeline on an external monitor, I need to output from the Mac via DVI or minidisplay or something, right? The FireWire connection between the ioHD and the Mac isn't used for this purpose is it?

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 17, 2011 at 5:17:46 pm

[Scott Phillips] "So, if I proceed with 24p footage in a 60p timeline, when the project is completed and I'm authoring a SD DVD, Compressor will analyze what I send over from the timeline and it will pull out the duplicate frames and get it to the frame rate required for a DVD?"

This might get a little but complicated for you if you are new to video, but since your 60p footage is 24p with pulldown, once you make a 29.97 SD DVD, your footage will retain the 3:2 pulldown it will just be interlaced. No reason to remove the pulldown. Make an interlaced 29.97 DVD and you will be fine (24p look will still be retained).


[Scott Phillips] "The FireWire connection between the ioHD and the Mac isn't used for this purpose is it?"

Yes it is. You install the AJA drivers and that will in turn install the necessary parts for FCP. You take the video out of the ioHD and in to your video monitor and use the AJA easy setups to monitor your footage. There's a manual that explains that in further detail if you need it. You need a video monitor, not a computer monitor (unless you are using the HP DreamColor, which is both).

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 17, 2011 at 6:50:46 pm

OK--thanks.

I did install everything from the AJA disc and I have printed the included manual, but I cannot seem to get anything on the external monitor. It works fine when the camera is attached to the ioHD and FCP is capturing.

But, I cannot go from the Mac to ioHD to monitor. I've tried altering the AV settings in FCP, but cannot seem to get it to work.

Is there some other manual you are recommending, or were you just speaking of the one on the AJA install disc?

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 17, 2011 at 7:38:45 pm

[Scott Phillips] "Is there some other manual you are recommending, or were you just speaking of the one on the AJA install disc?"

First, you should go to AJA.com and install the latest drivers/firmware (please uninstall your old ones first using the AJA uninstaller):

http://www.aja.com/support/io/io-hd.php

Install new drivers, then hit control-q to use an AJA easy setup. Manual is here:

http://www.aja.com/support/io/io-hd-documents.php

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 17, 2011 at 9:22:25 pm

awesome--thanks. For whatever reason, the uninstall/re-install did the trick.

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 17, 2011 at 11:10:44 pm

Did you update firmware too?


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 21, 2011 at 2:11:42 pm

I believe the firmware is up to date--this is what the updater says:



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 21, 2011 at 2:54:13 pm

Yep, that's it. Nice work.

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 21, 2011 at 3:23:32 pm

thanks Jeremy you've been a big help.

In regards to audio. If we use the setup as described (capturing the live feed directly into FCP via ioHD), how should we handle the audio? I've been testing with the built-in mic on the HVX200, but no audio is in the clip after capture. Naturally, I have an analog connection from the camera (red and white RCA) to the ioHD, and I set the control panel for audio to be analog, but still nothing.

Is the proper workflow to skip the camera all together and run audio from external microphones to the ioHD using the XLR connections? I guess "log and capture" will bring in that audio along with the video and put them in the clip together?

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 21, 2011 at 3:25:58 pm

[Scott Phillips] "Is the proper workflow to skip the camera all together and run audio from external microphones to the ioHD using the XLR connections?"

If you have line level out of your mics, yes. If not, you should put a mixer in between the microphones and your ioHD, which is common practice. You can then loop the audio out to the camera for backup (if you are recording to P2 as back up).

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 21, 2011 at 3:30:15 pm

ok--cool.

And, I see now that the RCA connectors on the back of the ioHD are for monitoring--not audio input.

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 21, 2011 at 3:39:51 pm

Yes. Audio inputs are available on the XLRs or via AES (digital).

I highly recommend a mixer.

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 21, 2011 at 5:29:59 pm

Actually, we have a Duet by Apogee that I might try to use for this function.

Scott


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Mar 21, 2011 at 5:32:37 pm

[Scott Phillips] "Actually, we have a Duet by Apogee that I might try to use for this function."

I wouldn't recommend it as the ioHD needs to be only firewire device on the machine. A simple audio mixer that takes mic in and sends line out will suffice.

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on May 6, 2011 at 7:08:11 pm

Hi again. I have a little 4 channel mixer now and when I hook up headphones to the mixer, the audio sounds as it should.

But, the audio being captured by Final Cut is barely audible--even with the mixer all the way to "11" and the gain in FCP cranked up.

Does it mean I need an amplifier also? I'm surprised that I would need one in addition to the Io HD and the cheap mixer. Perhaps in my haste to get the mixer, I should've looked into something with additional power.

scottiep


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on May 9, 2011 at 5:07:14 pm

[Scott Phillips] "But, the audio being captured by Final Cut is barely audible--even with the mixer all the way to "11" and the gain in FCP cranked up.

Does it mean I need an amplifier also?"


No. Please explain your signal path. You have analog audio input selected in the ioHD control panel?

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on May 9, 2011 at 6:09:10 pm

Well, I have the mic connected to the mixer via XLR, then another XLR goes out of the mixer to the Io HD. And, again when I connect headphones to the mixer to "monitor," it appears to be fine. But somewhere after the mixer, the signal breaks down and when watching the audio meter in the log and capture window, the meter responds, but doesn't get very loud--its peak never reaches yellow or red.

And the meter in the front of the Io HD also doesn't get very high (loud). The Io HD control panel on the Mac is set for analog audio input. I tried a different XLR cable just to troubleshoot, but it had the same result. I also tried a different Mac with FCP and had the same result there too.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on May 9, 2011 at 6:10:05 pm

[Scott Phillips] "And the meter in the front of the Io HD also doesn't get very high (loud). The Io HD control panel on the Mac is set for analog audio input. I tried a different XLR cable just to troubleshoot, but it had the same result. I also tried a different Mac with FCP and had the same result there too."

Have you tried turning the master up on the mixer? You aren't sending enough signal to the ioHD.


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on May 9, 2011 at 6:30:10 pm

Yes, it definitely seems as though there isn't enough signal making it to the Io HD. But, I do have the mixer maxed out--I can hear a lot of hiss and ambient noise with it cranked up, but very quiet when monitoring with FCP.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on May 9, 2011 at 6:32:34 pm

[Scott Phillips] "Yes, it definitely seems as though there isn't enough signal making it to the Io HD. But, I do have the mixer maxed out--I can hear a lot of hiss and ambient noise with it cranked up, but very quiet when monitoring with FCP."

Seems to me you have a mismatch of settings somewhere. Does your mic need phantom power and are you sending line level out of your mixer? Have you attenuated the channel with your mic?


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on May 9, 2011 at 7:53:56 pm

I've tried some other mics (previously, I'd only tried Shure sm7b) and I am getting some better results. Phantom power is on--by default--at the mixer. And the level is being controlled by the mixer.

Still seems significantly different when monitoring the mixer as opposed to monitoring in FCP. The max output level of the mixer is +14 dB and the max gain is +55dB, FWIW.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on May 9, 2011 at 7:56:46 pm

[Scott Phillips] "And the level is being controlled by the mixer."

There's pots on the mixer, right? Turn them up.

I would suggest getting yourself a real audio mixer:

Something like this on the cheap end:

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/1202.aspx

This way you have full control of your input/output levels/voltage. It's not just a mic mixer, but an audio mixer.

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 13, 2011 at 6:25:21 pm

OK--Jeremy. You've been a great help, and I hate to prolong this thread, but I have more questions.

We purchased the Behringer mixer, but I'm having the same results. I crank it up and listen through the monitor on the mixer and it sounds as it should--loud, hiss, lots of background noise.

But when I go to Log and Capture and capture the audio, it is very low. I check the "preview" box to monitor in FCP and it is way different than the monitor on the mixer--much quieter.

Do you have any thoughts on what the io HD may be doing? Or perhaps FCP? There is very little in the documentation (io HD) about audio settings. But, I think I have everything configured properly.

But, evidently something isn't right.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 15, 2011 at 12:41:34 pm

No worries. Sorry for delayed response.

Please tell me exactly how you have everything setup.


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 15, 2011 at 3:01:09 pm

ok--here goes.

I'm testing a wireless lavaliere mic--I've also tested a Shure SM7B with the same results--and the transmitter is plugged, via XLR to the "line 1 in" on the Behringer. I have the Gain and the Level knobs at half-way between min and max. I have the main mix slider around -10.

I've plugged in headphones to the "phones" jack to monitor and it sounds as I expect it would. I can clearly hear myself speaking as well as lots of ambient noise with everything set this high. The meter on the mixer will register -20, but never up to 0 or closer to being "clipped."

From the mixer, I have two 1/4" to XLR cables that go from the "main out" to the "in 1" and "in 2" XLRs on the io HD. As mentioned before I also have analog video from a Panasonic HVX200AP connecting to the io HD. I plug in the headphones to the monitor RCA on the io HD and it is much quieter when compared to what I hear when monitoring on the mixer.

Then, naturally I have the io HD connecting to a 27" iMac via FW 800. I'm using the easy setup in FCP=AJA ioHD 720p 59.94 Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), with audio settings of 48 khz, 24-bit and "config" set to "channel grouped."

When I use log and capture, I go to the clip settings, where I monitor the sound there (Preview is checked). And, just as it is monitoring on the io HD, it is much quieter.

Once I stop and review the footage, the audio waveform barely registers anything and my sound is around the -60 on the meter.

So, it seems to me that something is happening at the io HD.

Hope this is helpful--please let me know if you need anymore info on the setup.

thanks again for your help.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 15, 2011 at 6:52:35 pm

This is helpful.

When you open log and capture, take a screen grab of the "Clip Settings" tab and the "Capture Settings" tab, please.

Preview should NOT be checked.

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 15, 2011 at 8:25:37 pm

2 images attached.





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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 15, 2011 at 8:31:14 pm

Whew. Bingo.

In your Control Panel "Setup" tab, Click the "Lock Audio gain to Unity".

Jeremy


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 15, 2011 at 9:47:33 pm

yeah, I think I tried that before--I tried it again to be sure, and there is no change.

If I tap the mic, I might rise above -42.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 15, 2011 at 9:52:07 pm

And if you raise the master gain to 1?


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 15, 2011 at 10:04:08 pm

I changed the master gain in clip settings to 1. Tried again and no change.

Here's my Behringer FWIW:



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 15, 2011 at 10:44:09 pm

I dont see any video cables?


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 16, 2011 at 1:15:54 pm

The video runs from the camera into the io HD via component.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 16, 2011 at 1:23:28 pm

And you have that plugged in and camera on when doing these tests right?

You can't capture without some video going to the ioHD.

One more screen cap for me.

You need to arrange your windows so that I can see both the control panel and Fcp log and cap window.

With FCP selected and log and capture open, take a screen cap. Fcp must be selected and control panel visible. You might have to close the Fcp canvas/viewer.


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 16, 2011 at 1:56:27 pm

yep--I'm capturing audio and video.

Here's the control panel:



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 16, 2011 at 2:25:38 pm

Thanks so much. And you turn up the master out of the mixer, and nothing?

No meters on the front of the io either?

If so, it's time to pick up the phone and call AJA. It appears you have everything setup correctly from what I can see from here.

Sorry I couldn't help.


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on Jun 16, 2011 at 2:42:27 pm

thanks for all your assistance.

Yes, I haven't maxed everything, but gain, level and mix is all just shy of max and it is registering on the io HD meters, but not very high. Just like FCP--it is moving, but not anywhere near where I would expect.

Hopefully the AJA people will have some ideas.

thanks again.


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Scott Phillips
Re: io HD noob
on May 9, 2011 at 6:31:56 pm

this is the mixer here:

http://www.rolls.com/product.php?pid=MX124


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