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Workflow and Aspect ratio

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Dave Johnston
Workflow and Aspect ratio
on Mar 15, 2010 at 10:57:58 pm

Hi -

I'm just not undertanding something about setting up my ioHD and could use some help.

Here's what I want to do:

Shooting DVCam widescreen on a Sony HVR-Z1E (PAL,25fps).

Feeding component out of the Z1 to component in on the ioHD.

Feeding IN to my MacbookPro running FCP7.

I'd like to use Apple Prores 422, but none of the easy set-ups give me a 16:9 ratio.

Pictures go into ioHD 4:3 anamorphically squeezed, and stay that way on the timeline.

If I cut out FCP and use VTR Xchange, with my source as 625i25 and the compression type as Apple ProRes 422, it still captures 4:3 (anamorphic), remains 4:3 (anamorphic) in Xchange and also when imported to FCP.

I'm stumped on this, having tried every variation of primary and secondary format in the ioHD control panel, and the same in VTR Xchange, and in FCP Easy Setups.

Sooo... what settings SHOULD I be using?

My default is to revert to DV via firewire, cutting out ioHD altogether - but I'd hate to give in.

Any thoughts will be much appreciated.


Dave








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gary adcock
Re: Workflow and Aspect ratio
on Mar 15, 2010 at 11:45:37 pm

[Dave Johnston] "I'd like to use Apple Prores 422, but none of the easy set-ups give me a 16:9 ratio. Pictures go into ioHD 4:3 anamorphically squeezed, and stay that way on the timeline. "

The IoHD is only recording the image as it sees it, and since there is technically no such thing as 16x9 in SD because the image has to be 4:3 to play on a TV set.

you need to manually set up your aspect ratio to do this correctly

However - If I remember correctly the IoHD has an SD to SD aspect ratio like the Kona 3 and LHI does, it would be under the "Format" Tab in the Kona Control panel and it is at the bottom labeled as SD to SD conversion.

If it is there it should allow you to create a proper output to your monitor.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Dave Johnston
Re: Workflow and Aspect ratio
on Mar 16, 2010 at 8:33:18 am

Gary - thanks for the comment.

Yes, there is a SD to SD checkbox and the options are letterbox,pillarbox and H&V crop - none of which address my problem.

But you've given me food for thought.

I'm migrating from an analogue system where I'd feed component into my old Discreet Edit system, and the image filled whatever aspect ration I was working in... so I thought initially that perhaps my issue was with FCP rather than ioHD - but VTR Xchange seems to disprove this, as it offers no compatible conversion option from 625i25 to a 16:9 aspect. (The 4:3 image stays 4:3). My other experience is working in a FCP SD timeline, importing via firewire - and my "Widescreen" DVcam appears as "Widescreen" on the timeline.

I can import the AJA converted files and stretch them to 16:9 width in FCP - but is that not a strange workaround? Or do I just have to get my head around it?

My perception was that the ioHD would allow me to input my SD signal, up convert it to Apple ProRes 422 and work with it in a lossless environment.

So is that what I'm actually doing? But because SD (DVcam) is inherently 4:3 (even if anamorphically squeezed) I will have to stretch it to render it in HD aspect ratio?

Doh...

Dave


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Ged Yeates
Re: Workflow and Aspect ratio
on Mar 16, 2010 at 2:11:36 pm

Hello

I capture SD 16:9 material regularly using my 'ioHD'. The thing to do is not get hung up on capturing the video in 16:9 as the fix for this is to let Final Cut Pro know it is anamorphic after capture.

In your bin containg the captured 16:9 clips (which will be displaying as 4:3 in the viewer if you load one in), right click on the clip and choose 'item properties' then choose 'format' then in the column next to anamorphic click once and a tick will appear. Your viewer windows will switch the clip to display as 16:9. From now on the clip is tagged as a 16:9 clip.

Adding the now tagged clip to a new sequence should ensure the sequence is 16:9 but if you are not asked to change the sequence to match the clip you can soon fix this by clicking in the sequence window (timeline area) then press command+ zero (not the zero on the numeric keypad, use the zero key above the 'P' key). Alternatively choose 'sequence settings' by using the drop down 'sequence' menu at the top of your screen. Once you are in sequence settings you will see a 'anamorphic 16:9 option, just tick the box and your sequence is now set to work as a functional 16:9 sequence.

Just capture the video as it comes and change the aspect ratio before placing the video in the timeline, this only take a few minutes to check each clip. If you do not tick the anamorphic column in the item properties it will display as a pillar boxed 4:3 image in a 16:9 timeline. So always tick the anamorphic property first.

Some video formats do have the 16:9 video tagged already so they will capture as 16:9, such as 16:9 DV captured using Firewire or HD footage. But for SD just capture and change it after and remember before editing.

Final Cut Pro can actually have a custom capture preset built by modifying a current one and you can set it to capture SD 16:9 on input. I have done this but lost the preset after a corruption and just haven'y got around to making another one as ticking each clip to anamorphic does not take much time so I'm guilty of a wee bit of laziness.

It is the aspect ratio of the pixels that is different between 4:3 & 16:9. The confusion arises because both ratios in PAL for example are exactly the same pixel size (720 x 576). However the 16:9 pixels are more rectangular in shape giving the wider looking image when displayed on a widescreen TV set. in PAL 16:9 pixels are 1.42 ratio, 4:3 pixels are 0.9 ratio but both contain the same number of pixels. Computer displays use square pixels so a 16:9 image from SD video will look tall and thin. This is often compensated for when outputting video for computer display by changing the pixel dimensions, typically on PAL 1024 x 576 or 720 x 405.

Hope this helps - Ged Yeates (Scotland)

Ged Yeates - Lighting Cameraman


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Ged Yeates
Re: Workflow and Aspect ratio
on Mar 16, 2010 at 2:39:06 pm

Hello

After my previous post I decided to stop being lazy and created the SD 16:9capture preset I mentioned, it literally took about twenty five seconds!

What you need to do is select:
Final Cut Pro drop down menu (top left of screen)

Choose ‘Audio/Video settings’

Choose the ‘capture presets’ tab (not the capture preset setting visible on this window, it must be the tab along the top of the window.

Choose the Apple ProRes 422 codec and frame rate you wish to use and then click on ‘edit’.

Next to the frame size display there is a box for 16:9 anamorphic tick this.

Give the preset a name of your choice and then click on ‘OK’.

Return to the ‘Summary’ tab and change the capture preset to the preset you just created using the drop down menu.

You will now capture the video as 16:9 avoiding the manual process of going into ‘item properties’ and ticking anamorphic. However when you begin capturing the video the window that comes to the front will be in 4:3 but do not worry as once the video is captured it will display correctly as 16:9 in the viewer window.

Bye – Ged Yeates (Scotland)


Ged Yeates - Lighting Cameraman


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Dave Johnston
Re: Workflow and Aspect ratio
on Mar 16, 2010 at 3:06:35 pm

Ged -

This is great - thankyou - trying to find specific things in the absence of printed documentation is hopeless and I was floundering.

I think this will resolve the ioHD issues I'm having - but I might pick your brains some more if I fall into any more potholes.

Now if I can just get the ioHD to do the same thing twice.....

Dave


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