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Can IoHD help Original XL-H1 produce 24F FCP Workflow?

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Jesus Ali
Can IoHD help Original XL-H1 produce 24F FCP Workflow?
on Jun 16, 2009 at 6:56:51 am

Hey Everyone; apologies for cross posting this in the Canon forum, but the solutions may be tied together...

I know this has been an issue for a while, but now that some dust has settled I expect it has been worked out, however my Googling can't find any solid answers.

I have an original Canon XL-H1, with HD-SDI output.
I would like to shoot in High Definition and capture in the 24F mode with proper pulldown.

I know that Canon jumped the gun on the official 24fps HDV Spec when they released the XL-H1, and that they may have revised the method with the recently released XL-H1s camera, along with the other s series camera updates.

But what method works best with the original XL-H1?

If anyone can point me to a solid 24fps HD Final Cut Studio workflow tutorial, I would be most appreciative.

I can shoot to HDV tape, or I can shoot to hard drive through an AJA IoHD. (Or I can shoot Canon's 24F to tape and then play it out through the HD-SDI into the IoHd.)

If it helps, I could use the IoHD to make the footage 720p. But if a 24fps 1080p format can be achieved, I'd like to try that.

I remember reading something that the new IoHD software can now recognize 1080i 24Psf (progressive segmented frames), however, the caveat was that only the new s series Canon HDV's flag the footage properly over HD-SDI out.

But what are people with the Original XL-H1 doing?

Any tips, hints or links in the right direction will be much appreciated!

Thanks,

Jesus


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Jesus Ali
Re: Can IoHD help Original XL-H1 produce 24F FCP Workflow?
on Jun 16, 2009 at 2:17:30 pm

I found this:
http://www.sony.ca/hdv/files/white/HDV_Progressive_Primer.pdf

On page 12 it claims that NATIVE Progressive recording is part of the HDV spec. (Recording 12 frame GOPs to HDV tape, twice per second). I never knew that.

It also says that "some cameras" called this 24F Mode.

On page 18 it goes on to say that this 24P or 30P 1080P signal can be captured over iLink (firewire).


For the sake of the IoHD, would this still be considered PsF?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Can IoHD help Original XL-H1 produce 24F FCP Workflow?
on Jun 17, 2009 at 12:07:30 am

Yep. But you'd have to capture firewire. I don't think that camera will output 1080psf24 via SDI. ti would probably do 30.


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Jesus Ali
Re: Can IoHD help Original XL-H1 produce 24F FCP Workflow?
on Jun 17, 2009 at 1:21:48 am

Ugh. I feel so close!

I just did a test.

I set the IoHD to take the XL-H1's 1080i 29.97 HD-SDI and make it 23.98 psf, and I made the 23.98 psf Easy Setups available to FCP and I chose Pro Res and captured in FCP.

The resulting file is a strange hybrid of Progressive and Interlaced frames!

FCP captured a file that it sees as 23.976 fps 1920 x 1080 Pro Res, but as I nudge through the file I can see that it has interlaced frames in the follow pattern:

PiPPiPiPPiPiPPiPiPPiPiPPiPiPPi

One Progressive, then One Interlaced, then Two Progressives, then One Interlaced, and it repeats that pattern consistently.


I tried to see if I could deduce a pulldown pattern from it, if the idea is that each Interlaced frame is the 3rd frame and the P before was the first two frames, it could work like this:


PiPPiPiPPiPiPPiPiPPiPiPPiPiPPi
_32 3 32 3 32 3 32 3 32 3 32 3


But that doesn't match anything I've ever seen.

Any thoughts on the weird pulldown?
Could changing anything in the AJA ControlPanel under CODEC 24-30fps Conversion help?


I also recorded some tests to HDV tape.
I will try capturing them over firewire tomorrow.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Can IoHD help Original XL-H1 produce 24F FCP Workflow?
on Jun 17, 2009 at 1:33:02 am

Your best option is to capture 30(29.97) fps and then remove the pulldown after capture using Compressor or Cinema Tools. Compressor is more the more automatic or batch way to do it.

The AJA can remove 3:2 pulldown on the fly, but your capture has to start on 'A' Frame which is virtually impossible to do reliably/consistently in a live capture setting.

HDV, well that means you'll be going to HDV.

Jeremy



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Will Griffith
Re: Can IoHD help Original XL-H1 produce 24F FCP Workflow?
on Jun 26, 2009 at 12:37:38 am

We used to capture into a Kona LHe with the original H1 and remove the pulldown
in After Effects by using the "Guess Pulldown" option. Worked every time.

Compressor should work fine though.


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Jesus Ali
Re: Can IoHD help Original XL-H1 produce 24F FCP Workflow?
on Jun 26, 2009 at 5:01:04 am

That's a great tip that never occurred to me! Thank you, Will!

I've been using the custom Easy Setups to capture the HDV tape directly into ProRes HQ, but I have been curious about whether or not I could see the difference going straight to 10-bit.

Thanks again! Jesus.


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Will Griffith
Re: Can IoHD help Original XL-H1 produce 24F FCP Workflow?
on Jun 26, 2009 at 12:23:33 pm

Direct HDSDI capture is better, but obviously cumbersome for field work. :)
Convergent Designs and AJA are changing that though.


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