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Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck

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Jared Lorenz
Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Nov 30, 2008 at 12:22:44 am

We are outputting a movie shot and cut in 23.98p XDCam EX, and corrected at 23.98p 1080 ProRes422 HQ. The end result needs to be a 59.94 HDCam master.

After testing one configuration and failing, we transcoded to 23.98p to 1080i59.94 by placing the 23.98p movie on a 59.94i timeline and rendering it out. We are using an Aja IO HD with up-to-date firmware and drivers, and Final Cut Pro 6.04 to go out to a Sony HDW-M2000 deck via HD-SDI.

The video out settings on FCP and the IO HD are set to 1080i2997.

It plays back to video out accurately via the IO HD set to 1080i29.97 but when we go to print to tape all seems well except that there is a black video signal from the Aja IO (this is confirmed by connecting the HD-SDI directly to a monitor). The Aja IO seems to output audio but no video but _only_ when we are using the Edit to Tape tool. Simply using the IO HD for video out with exactly the same settings works and outputs a 1080i29.97 video signal. The deck is set up to accept HDSDI in and it is timed to 59.94 (in case you are wondering, the 29.97 setting on this deck is a PsF option which does not allow you to record - playback only).

We are using a Gen10 sync generator set to 1080i29.97. It is not terminated coming out of the deck, which could be the problem... I'll be picking up some 75ohm terminators tomorrow to see if this is the issue. In the meantime does anyone have any advice?

Just for reference, initially we had tested the same configuration, except that we dragged the native 23.98 timeline to the edit to tape window with the video settings on the IO and Final Cut Pro set to 1080i29.97. While the video out worked and displayed fine routing through the deck, we got signal errors on recording and the video playback on the recorded tape was scrambled.

Jared Lorenz


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gary adcock
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Nov 30, 2008 at 8:21:48 pm


B>[Jared Lorenz] "corrected at 23.98p 1080 ProRes422 HQ. "

the signal is PsF and if you use the 23.98 P setting the content is not correct for the sony deck.



[Jared Lorenz] "ust for reference, initially we had tested the same configuration, except that we dragged the native 23.98 timeline to the edit to tape window with the video settings on the IO and Final Cut Pro set to 1080i29.97. While the video out worked and displayed fine routing through the deck, we got signal errors on recording and the video playback on the recorded tape was scrambled."


Sound like a deck setting error to me. You even say so in your note- the E to E signal is fine but the recording is all screwed up -- welcome to the world of True Progressive vs. Progressive Segmented Frame.

Have you tried taking FCP out of the equation by testing the signal path thru the IOHD's control panel- so that there is nothing between you and the deck / monitor?




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Jared Lorenz
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Nov 30, 2008 at 9:57:11 pm

Hi Gary,

Thanks for attempting to come to the rescue.

I did check the deck and while I'm not ruling that out as a possibility, my current problem is that a rendered 59.94 movie won't play back out of the IO in ETT mode from FCP. If I just play back with the IO HD set as external video with identical settings to the Edit to Tape window, everything shows up and displays just fine.

Then again my monitor displays both P and PsF signals so you could be right. Perhaps the deck will pass the signal through the SDI port even if it won't lay that signal down to tape. Possible?

I need a 59.94 interlaced master. So I am attempting to output an interlaced signal to the deck. Routing directly to the monitor or through the deck in EE/PB mode looks OK but the deck gives me signal errors and the recording is no good (in the first scenario at 23.98p converted on the fly via the IO HD to a 59.94i signal).

In the second scenario (rendered in final cut pro in a sequence with 3:2 pulldown) there was just a black video signal coming out of the IO (audio came through, and no signal errors).

Since this is something I will have to do time and time again this month, I picked up a Matrox MXO2 on the advice of a local who told me it would insert the 3:2 pulldown on the fly (which the IO HD claims not to do), given that it's half the price of the Kona3. So far it's showing the same issue except it gives me NO video out at all. Which tells me this is a Final Cut Pro / Quicktime Video Out problem. Plus, maybe, a deck problem.

Who can help me sort it out?

Jared



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Nov 30, 2008 at 10:13:43 pm

You should let the ioHd do the pulldown. Set your video output to 1080i29.97 10bit in the view menu and your 23.98 sequence should play just fine out to tape.


If you simply put a 23.98 movie in a 29.97 timeline, you won't get the proper 3:2 pulldown without a third party filter. FCP adds 2224 pulldown. You can use Compressor, however, to add proper 3:2.

Jeremy


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Jared Lorenz
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Nov 30, 2008 at 10:33:58 pm

So you're saying the IO HD will insert the pulldown? I thought so too...

I could get it to do so cleanly for simple video out - but when mastering in ETT mode it wouldn't send anything useful that the deck could put to tape. The video appeared as though it were behind a mosaic screeen - and signal errors galore on the tape. The signal out of the IO playing the 23.98p sequence was 29.97i and displayed cleanly. The deck's recording disagreed with what the monitor told me.

Hence the attempt to render it out with pulldown and put that to tape. I believe you can set FCP to render with the right pulldown - the evidence for me is in frame-by-framing through the movie which very clearly has a 3:2 pulldown and not a 2224 pulldown.

The deck continues to disagree with the MXO2 today. More and more I am thinking this is a DECK issue. Although Mr. Service just looked at it I have a feeling he didn't check the record functions.

Thoughts?

Jared



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Dec 1, 2008 at 5:02:04 am

[Jared Lorenz] "So you're saying the IO HD will insert the pulldown? I thought so too... "

Yes, it should.


[Jared Lorenz] "the evidence for me is in frame-by-framing through the movie which very clearly has a 3:2 pulldown and not a 2224 pulldown.
"


And where do you set this? This would be news to me.


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Jared Lorenz
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Dec 1, 2008 at 5:46:43 am

Hi Jeremy,

I'm not sure where it's set, but the rendered movie has 3:2 pulldown. I have the system set up with 2:3:2:3 in the System Settings>Playback Control (on the online system only) but it doesn't seem to me that setting would affect how pulldown would be rendered into a movie. We use 2:2:2:4 in other suites for snappier playback.

Funnily, the first time I went out to tape with Final Cut doing the pulldown via the Matrox MXO2, it laid down 2:2:2:4, because I hadn't found the preset that used 3:2 pulldown (hidden in a drop-down menu BELOW the menu where you select pulldown pattern), in spite of the above playback setting.

Jared



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Jared Lorenz
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Dec 16, 2008 at 10:51:32 pm

Just wanted to update this re: exporting with the proper pulldown to sate your curiosity, in case it was still active.

It wasn't exported from FCP at all, we used compressor to take a 23.98 movie to 59.94.

Mystery solved.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Dec 17, 2008 at 12:56:54 am

A ha! THanks for following up.


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Jared Lorenz
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Nov 30, 2008 at 10:56:20 pm

Here's the update:

I can't record any signal IN to the deck without it appearing with the attached signal loss/interference/junk. Scroll to the bottom to view my sorrow.

This is whether we go out of the Aja LHe, IO HD or MXO2 with a 1080i signal.

The deck is set up as follows:
- ref in at 1080i2997 from the Gen10 sync gen
- video in 1080i59.94
- deck system frequency set to 59.94
- deck set to 2F
- deck timecode set to regen LTC

Any ideas?

Jared





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Bob Zelin
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Dec 1, 2008 at 12:05:24 am

just a guess -
on your HDW-M2000 VTR.

go to MENU 309. It's currently in AUTO 1 - correct ?
Change it to AUTO 2, and let me know what happens, when you try to output.

If it works, I will tell you who to thank (because it's not me).

Bob Zelin




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Jared Lorenz
Re: Signal Problems mastering 1080i59.94 HDCam from IO HD and FCP 6.04, Sony HDW-M2000 deck
on Dec 1, 2008 at 2:03:39 am

OK, tell me who to thank, because it worked. I am a happy man.

Now, I just have to get that video out working on the IO HD again...



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Bob Zelin
Re: Signal Problems mastering - Rudy Van Kol is a GENIUS
on Dec 2, 2008 at 12:56:48 am

Jared writes -

"OK, tell me who to thank, because it worked. I am a happy man.
Now, I just have to get that video out working on the IO HD again..."


Hi -
I had the same problem as you did, and Rudy said in 2 seconds - "change the 309 menu to AUTO 2".

I ASK ALL OF YOU - WHAT OTHER COMPANY has tech support like AJA -
NO ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob Zelin






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Jared Lorenz
Re: Signal Problems mastering - Rudy Van Kol is a GENIUS
on Dec 2, 2008 at 3:48:44 am

Yup, that's terrific.

When the dust settles I'll be calling about the IO.

Thanks for spreading the news.



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Joseph Harkins
Re: Signal Problems mastering - Rudy Van Kol is a GENIUS
on Dec 3, 2008 at 10:15:42 pm

This seems like an awful simply solution, but I had a similar issue when 1st using the ioHD. Had audio fine but I had color bars every time I went to edit to tape. Turns out in FCP audio/video settings under the A/V devices tab there was a check in the "Different output for Edit to Tape" box. I had "None" under video output and "Default" for audio output. Alas audio but no video, and I felt like a fool for searching for so long and realizing i just needed to uncheck a box. I honestly didn't know that box was there. I hope that helps or didn't waste your time.

Joe/Coach


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