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Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct

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Mike Patrick
Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 4:21:23 pm

While capturing Beta SP footage thru my AJA ioHD into FCP i'm noticing a thick black line along the bottom of the frame. I've been told it's a reference issue with the Io. The one thing i've noticed is when i open the log and capture window in FCP the ref light on the front of the Io turns off. Not being a studio engineer, i'm sure it has everything to do with how i have the cabling hooked up, and or how i have the AJA Control Panel setup. My setup is as follows.

Computer: Dual 3ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon Mac Pro running OS 10.4.11, with FCP 6.0.4

A/D Converter: AJA ioHD with Control Panel version 6.0.1

Black Burst: E Sigma Electronics BSG-26a

Beta SP Deck: Sony PVW-2800

I have the deck and the AJA hooked up via the Component in and outs. Deck control is via rs-422. Not sure if this is the correct hook up, but here goes. The black burst has four Analog Only OUTS, and two SDI/Analog OUTS. I have one BNC going OUT of Analog Only into the AJA ref IN. I then have a BNC going out of the AJA ref OUT to the ref connection in the Beta deck's Video Input section. The 75ohm switch is ON. The AJA is plugged into the Mac via Firewire 800 on the front of the tower.

In the Control tab of the AJA Control Panel the Default Video Output is set to Test Pattern below that the Test Pattern is set to Color Bars - 75%. In the IoHD section below the IoHD Stand Alone Mode is on Current Setting and the IoHD Desplay Mode is on Primary and Secondary. To the right in the Playback Timing section i have Genlock set to Ref In, the Horizontal and Vertical Timing is set to 0.

In the Inputs Tab i selected Analog 525i29.97 and the Analog Format is set to Component (Beta). In the Analog Out Tab i have Primary 525i29.97 selected with the Analog Format being Component (Beta).

Am i missing any switches on Beta deck? Is the cabling correct? Is the Control Panel setup how it should be? Let me know if more info is needed to diagnose my issue. Thanks

Mike



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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 4:28:44 pm

One last note. The Deck, AJA, and Black Burst setup is on a wheeled cart which we use as our output deck for our three other Macs. Is it possible that constantly hooking the AJA to the other Macs can cause this ref issue?



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 4:36:41 pm

[Mike Patrick] "The one thing i've noticed is when i open the log and capture window in FCP the ref light on the front of the Io turns off."

That is correct as the the ioHD (and Kona cards) reference incoming video when they go in to capture mode.

What I would do is not loop your reference through the ioHD, but simply take another one of the other 3 remaining analog outputs on the blackburst and hook that in to the deck.

Make sense?

Jeremy


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 5:01:52 pm

Just re cabled the black burst. The thick black line at the bottom of the frame in the log and capture window appeared for less than a second then the frame sort of snaped downward into place removing the black line. The black line did reappear after a few play downs, but after pausing then replaying the deck, the frame would snap back into place removing the line. Is this a case of just eyeballing the frame to make sure it's aligned/synced properly, or is this abnormal?



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 5:13:31 pm

[Mike Patrick] "The thick black line at the bottom of the frame in the log and capture window appeared for less than a second then the frame sort of snaped downward into place removing the black line. "

Do you have a monitor? What does the output of the AJA look like?


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 5:28:58 pm

I can see a little bit of the line in the monitor when hooked up to the to the AJA. Obviously its much more apparent in the monitors underscan mode. For broadcast i could probably get away with it, but my content is being sent to web as well so almost all the frame is visible. Before all i was getting was the thick black line, but now it comes and goes, so at least we're on to something.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 6:08:10 pm

Okay, if you play the tape from the beta and hook your monitor straight up to the beta deck, do you see the line?

Jeremy


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 6:18:07 pm

Yup, the line still comes and goes after playing, pausing and replaying.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 6:27:55 pm

[Mike Patrick] "Yup, the line still comes and goes after playing, pausing and replaying."

This is with your monitor from the beta deck? Bypassing FCP/AJA?


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 6:43:21 pm

Right, i disconnected everything, component cables, audio, reference, RS-422, that was cabling the deck to the AJA and connected the component outputs from the deck into the monitor.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 7:05:08 pm

[Mike Patrick] " and connected the component outputs from the deck into the monitor."

With reference?

Sure your tape is good?


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 7:56:48 pm

No, no reference hooked up to the Beta when i played it back to the monitor. With just the Beta hooked to the monitor, i checked a few different tapes and didn't get any black bars popping in during random test playbacks. How does a bad tape cause this issue?



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 8:18:38 pm

[Mike Patrick] "How does a bad tape cause this issue? "

It could have been recorded that way.

Ok, so let me get this straight, you only find the black bar when you are hooked up to the AJA box? WHen you have reference hooked up properly, the black bar comes in and out across multiple tapes?

Jeremy


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 9:39:13 pm

I saw the black bar while testing through the AJA, as well as only coming out of the Beta to the monitor. And ran these tests with the same tape. Then i tried using a few different tapes in both test modes, and i didn't get any black bars at all with the other tapes. So it seems maybe i've been working with some funky tapes. Thats why i was wondering how a tape could be giving me bad sync.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 9:43:45 pm

[Mike Patrick] "Thats why i was wondering how a tape could be giving me bad sync. "

You can record bad sync to tape, or maybe the deck that used to record these tapes needed some servicing. It's possible. Sounds like we narrowed it down a but for you, though.

Are the tapes all from the same source?

Jeremy


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 9:57:51 pm

You know what, i was just realizing that the tapes i've been having issues with have all been output from an old Avid. Funny thing is though that the black bars may appear over one part of the tape, then might not appear if i rewind and play back over the same part. If that makes sense.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 10:04:13 pm

You're starting to lose me here, Mike. Any chance you can post a screen grab of what it looks like?


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 10:35:23 pm

Ok here we go. The first pic shows a section of video i played down. At the bottom of the frame is the thick black line. I rewound to the beginning and played it down again. The black line appeared again,as shown in pic two, but was thinner than in pic one. And it's definitely only happening with footage that was output from our Avid. Also, if this is an issue i'm looking into too much let me know. It'll help me from going crazy.







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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 6, 2008 at 10:48:00 pm

That doesn't look like a sync problem to me, really. it looks more like analog tape that's out of the overscan area. If you need to put them on the web raster to raster, it will be up to you to crop all that mess out.

Jeremy


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 7, 2008 at 3:52:46 pm

Is there a possibility that the Avid is outputting something onto the tape thats causing the frame to shift around when i play it back on my deck?



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 7, 2008 at 4:46:14 pm

[Mike Patrick] "Is there a possibility that the Avid is outputting something onto the tape thats causing the frame to shift around when i play it back on my deck? "

No, but I'd suspect the deck as a possible source of weirdness. Sorry man, these types of things are very hard to trouble shoot over email. If you think that you have everything setup properly, then I would suspect the deck. If you other tapes there that were output by something other than your Avid, and if those work okay, then I'd suspect the tapes.

Jeremy


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Mike Patrick
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 7, 2008 at 4:53:50 pm

I didn't mention this earlier, but i called and left two messages with the AJA tech services and received no call back on my issue so I appreciate all the help as well as the timeliness of your replies.



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gary adcock
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Nov 7, 2008 at 4:23:42 pm

[Mike Patrick] "Also, if this is an issue i'm looking into too much let me know. It'll help me from going crazy. "

OK it was said before that This is called OVERSCAN and it is completely normal

it is common since the raw frame size is 720 x 486 and the avid would have laid that down to tape correctly

working with FW formats you never see this.





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD




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Mike Patrick Debbie
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on Feb 27, 2009 at 9:28:43 pm

Just wanted to leave an update on the issue. Turned out to be the video tracking dial on the deck. I just so happen to be noodling around with the dial when suddenly the think black bar disappeared. Problem solved. It always turns out to be the simplest things.



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Craig Bernstein
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on May 22, 2009 at 4:50:40 pm

Not sure how old this thread is but:

Getting back to the reference disappearing when 'Log and Capture' is opened:

Why would the ioHD reference the incoming video when the AJA control panel is set to GenLock 'Reference in' (and not 'Video in').

I have tri-sync feeding all my components' (HDCAM, DVCPRO HD, AJA ioHD) reference ins with 75ohm terminators on the outs..

Thx in advance for any insight





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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on May 22, 2009 at 5:07:27 pm

[Craig Bernstein] "Why would the ioHD reference the incoming video when the AJA control panel is set to GenLock 'Reference in' (and not 'Video in'). "

As it's just the way it works and it doens't need anything else. The reference will work on output for your layoffs/mastering.


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Craig Bernstein
Re: Having sync Issue with ioHD, Cabling/Setup might not be correct
on May 22, 2009 at 5:17:53 pm

understood-
thanks Jeremy


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