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Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor

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Tim Kirby
Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 28, 2008 at 9:22:10 pm

I'm capturing into VTR Exchange from a HVR M25 HDV deck, via the IOHD using an Addenda Lanc/RS422....PAL HDV to Apple Prores 422 HQ via component....I have deck control, timecode shows in the VTR exchange before and during capture...but VTR Exchange won't recoginise marked in/out points when I ask it to capture. If I use capture now there's no TC captured with the file, although it's showing correctly on the VTR Exchange TC display during capture.

I've have seen posts on this forum suggesting using the addenda with a prosumer deck like this one....should I be making any specific changes to TC input in settings in the IOHD to get ths working? I think I've tried just about everything so far to no avail.

Latest AJA drivers (6.1), latest updated Version of FCS 2. Intel MacPro, 2 X 3ghz Intel Processors 8 Gig Ram, IOHD, Addenda lanc convertor.

Any help appreciated, apologies in advance if it's not strictly an IOHD issue. No probs with TC over SDI into VTR Exchange.





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Man cannot discover new oceans until he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.


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Ken Botelho
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 28, 2008 at 9:40:20 pm

Hi Tim,
Not to discourage you from resolving your TC issue... but what's keeping you from capturing direct via FireWire? Your ingest quality will be 100% lossless from the original source. Unfortunately, I have no experience with the "Addenda Lanc Convertor" but it seems like the issue may be something with settings in the software. Have you tried hot plugging the lanc cable in while its capturing to see if it ever locks in to TC?

-Kenny



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Tim Kirby
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 28, 2008 at 10:30:22 pm

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the input - just tried hot plugging to no avail. I'm working to a Directors brief - 5 cameras shot an event HDV, he wants footage captured in SD Prores 422...might be being a bit dim here but I didn't think I could capture to SD Prores 422 HQ from HDV source over firewire, HD maybe, but SD? Hence the Addenda..

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Man cannot discover new oceans until he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.


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Ken Botelho
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 12:07:13 am

[Tim Kirby] "Hi Ken,

Thanks for the input - just tried hot plugging to no avail. I'm working to a Directors brief - 5 cameras shot an event HDV, he wants footage captured in SD Prores 422...might be being a bit dim here but I didn't think I could capture to SD Prores 422 HQ from HDV source over firewire, HD maybe, but SD? Hence the Addenda.."


Tim, sorry to hear your still troubleshooting this. So, you cannot down-convert in realtime using FW (I believe) but you can however utilize what you have. You can get some real great results (IMHO better then AJA) with capturing your footage via Final Cut or VTR Xchange in its native HDV format, and then using Apple Compressor to down-convert your clips with embedded time-code from HDV to Apple ProRes 422 as SD material (Pillarbox cropping or widescreen), and since it uses the "Optical Flow" backbone, the results are quite amazing, you also have control of the bounding box of where to crop and some other neat filters. I recommend you use this as your "workaround" until the real mystery is uncovered. Sure its an extra step but I think you will be pleased with the results.



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Bob Zelin
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 1:51:50 am

If you want to work with ProRes422HQ, and not be in render hell with this HDV footage, there is unfortunately only one real answer - the Sony HVR-1500. This will give you an HD-SDI output with RS422 VTR control, and you can do whatever you want. I know that this costs a lot of money.

Bob Zelin




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Tim Kirby
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 7:48:00 am

Not so much to hire for a day Bob, thanks very much for the tip.

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Man cannot discover new oceans until he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.


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Tim Kirby
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 7:52:47 am

Thanks for this work around Ken, appreciated. The volume of material that needs capturing and would need encoding makes the additional step quite daunting in this case - I think a different deck with SDI as Bob suggests would be quicker. Still, you can bet I'll be doing it your way sometime soon as well!


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Man cannot discover new oceans until he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.


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Ken Botelho
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 10:50:46 am

No Problem Tim,
Ok.... One last solution I have that will save you from rendering and get you the time code you need, believe me I never give up. Output from your deck and use capture now to get your footage without time code, but for the fist few seconds... toggle the time code display window on the deck to capture this for a few seconds and then back off. This will be your master time code reference.

Now with the clips imported in the Final Cut Bin select, open in Viewer and highlight a clip and set the play head to the part of the clip where you can see the the time code window at the beginning, go to the MenuBar and select [ Modify > Timecode... ]. Now set your frame-rate, and enter in the exact time code you have displayed on the current frame , and save. THATS IT! This is frame accurate, scan through parts of the tape to confirm it worked. I have used this a few times for multi-cam projects and works wonders.



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Tim Kirby
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 1:54:52 pm

Hi Ken,

Another great suggestion for my list, and one I actually should have been looking for a couple of months back! I should have said that this job was shot with freerun time of day TC, with cameras stopping and starting in various locations filming a run around london - so I'm still stuck with this one.

Really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge - always learning!!

-----------------------------
Man cannot discover new oceans until he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.


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Ken Botelho
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 3:01:53 pm

No problem Tim,
The well of ideas is offically dry...



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 6:09:05 pm

Do you have timecode source set to 'deck' in the preferences?

Jeremy


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Tim Kirby
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 6:20:51 pm

I do indeed - the baffling thing is that the TC shows up in VTR Exchange during capture now - but there's nothing in the captured files.

-----------------------------
Man cannot discover new oceans until he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 7:04:03 pm

I just did a test (not with an addenda controller, but with regular rs-422) and I did not get tc with capture now either. You should write support at aja dot com and see what they say. Perhaps it's not possible.

Jeremy


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Tim Kirby
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 7:13:00 pm

Thanks Jeremy, I'll do that.

-----------------------------
Man cannot discover new oceans until he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 11:54:34 pm

Tim, you can also open batch capture lists to VTR Exchange if this is of any interest to you.

Jeremy




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Jeff Mack
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 30, 2008 at 2:11:38 am

That freerun time of day ca really bite you in the ass. Look out for times where you don't have enough pre roll. FC takes time to searchfor t/c and won't capture so you lose 4-5 seconds of capture.

Jeff



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Carsten Orlt
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 29, 2008 at 11:44:40 pm

Tim,
You already said because of the amount of footage it might be daunting, but I just set up a system for friend which I just want to let you know about.

Same source for my friend: HDV footage. Problem for my friend: he wanted to edit on his system that only has an SD output card.

Here's what we did. Capture all HDV footage via firewire just using capture now (he organized it in one folder per tape). Create a droplet in Compressor to convert from HDV to DV (just standard Apple preset) Conversions can be done overnight, so not really down time.

Keep the HDV somewhere and edit with the DV clips, but never rename the quicktime mediafiles. Once you finished you project, take your seq into a new project, set the seq in that new project to HDV and relink to the original HDV clips and voila all back in HD. Now you can export that via FCP/Compressor/put back to HDV tape and convert via posthouse etc.
All editing is done in SD, but master is still HDV and therefor future proof.

Because converting via compressor keeps all TC etc intact and you can do it as a batch, it can't be easier.




Carsten


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Bob Zelin
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 30, 2008 at 2:01:08 am

everyone on this list is out of their minds. You simply rent the HVR-1500, and work as normal. HD-SDI in, RS422 VTR control - no aborts, no problems. Everyone on this list wants to find the CHEAPEST WAY OUT, even when there are professional solutions that reality exist. Renting a HVR-1500 for ONE DAY will not kill you financially, but everyone wants to find a "cheap way" or a "free way" to do the job - time not being an issue at all (hey you can render overnight, what's the big deal).

RENT A F#$%ING deck, and work like a professional. 99% of this list owns a Beta 1800 VTR, a HVR-1500 only costs $5500 ($3000 less than a Beta machine used to cost). I cannot believe what a bunch of BABIES are on this list that are doing everyting in their power not to purchase or RENT a professional VTR, and finding every possible work around to spend $200 for the day to rent a deck. You don't need to write AJA about this - the Addenda adaptor for the UVW-1400 (RS232 to RS422 adaptor) never made the UVW-1400 behave like a UVW-1800, and never let it batch capture like a UVW-1800 (or PVW2800 or BVW-75).

I don't care if you think I am a jerk - you are an amateur.

Bob Zelin




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Carsten Orlt
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 30, 2008 at 2:19:24 am

you should seriously look for another job.
you lost it my friend, big time
and yes your are a jerk, and the only I know who is proud of it.

the only problem you have is that you can't get over the fact that nobody needs your expertise anymore and can save the money spent on wanna-be big shots like you.

I'm so glad the digital revolution came along!!!

enough said


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 30, 2008 at 3:49:19 am

[Bob Zelin] "I don't care if you think I am a jerk - you are an amateur."

Tough day at at the office?

I am sure there are cheap pieces of gear that you skimp out on in every one of your installations. Give the guy a break.






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Tim Kirby
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 30, 2008 at 8:36:28 am

Thanks for the compliment Bob, you must be sitting on a rusty nail or something.

I ALREADY SAID I WAS GOING TO HIRE A DECK SO WHAT IS YOUR F%C*I&G PROBLEM?

-----------------------------
Man cannot discover new oceans until he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.


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Tim Kirby
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Sep 30, 2008 at 11:53:51 am

Actually, reading the thread I didn't make it clear that I was going to hire to solve this one - after your recommendation of the SDI deck. I apologise for that, and for the record Mr Zelin, that is exactly what I'm going to do. Thanks.

I may be an amateur in your eyes mate, but I've been earning a decent living in video for the last 10 years, like it or lump it. Part of my business involves dealing with people in an appropriate and courteous manner- your attitude on here suggests to me that you don't get out much and spend most of your time drooling over your vast array of HD gear like some kind of latter day Video Gollum with his 'Precious' - rather than engaging and interacting with other human beings in a reasonable manner. When you do engage it seems to me that is often in BOLD CAPITALS with a VERY UNPLEASANT ATTITUDE. Not nice, especially for newcomers to the Cow.

If you can't ask a question and discuss things on a forum without getting shot down in flames by an arrogant know all then what, pray, is the point?

Enough of feeding the Troll, I've got work to do, no matter how crummy Mr Zelin thinks my standards are.

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Man cannot discover new oceans until he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.


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Ken Botelho
Re: Timecode through Addenda Lanc Convertor
on Oct 1, 2008 at 11:02:23 pm

Bob,
Just because someone doesn't take or suggest your idea does not make them amateur by any means. If the same results can be achieved, then I say take the free way or the cheap way or whatever way, who cares. But what your suggesting is the "easy way", cmon be creative - being resourceful is pure ingenuity, thats what makes an engineer a true engineer.. being passionate about what they do, and not caving into simple (expensive) solutions all the time.

You think the audience viewing the final product gives a flying f*** of what deck tim used in his production???..... Probably Not





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