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dv50 to HD workflow

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Ken Zukin
dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 17, 2007 at 11:22:29 pm

Up till now I've been shooting and editing in the DV50 codec - using FCP and an Aurora Pipe capture card. I recently upgraded to a 8-core Mac Pro, and an IO HD with a nice MaxxDigital Sata storage setup.

I upgraded so as to be able to deliver projects in HD, and need to know the best workflow.

People say my camera, a Panasonic SDX900 looks pretty good upconverted. Do I bring the footage into the system using it's native DV50 codec, and edit in SD, finally using the IO HD's upconversion features to output at 720P, or should I be creating a DVCPRO HD or ProRes timeline in FCP? I'll be renting a Panasonic AJ-HD 1400 for laying these projects off onto tape.

Thanks in advance.

Ken


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 17, 2007 at 11:38:52 pm

What format do you usually shoot with on your SDX? 24p, 24pA, 30p, 60i? 16x9, 4x3? Letterbox, anamorphic?


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Ken Zukin
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 12:01:58 am

Hey Jeremy,

I shoot 24P / 16 X 9. (Of course, that's recorded to the videotape @ 29.97). One other thing I forgot to mention is that I bring the footage into my edit system via component.

thanks.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 12:06:01 am

Well, there's multiple answers I can give to you, but first a question. Any reason why you don't want to go to 1080psf23.98?

Jeremy


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Ken Zukin
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 12:17:12 am

Well....the pulldown takes place as the camera records....so the images on the videotape are recorded at 29.97. The final product is played back by a local PBS station - it'll never be a film-out type of situation.
I'm totally open to whatever workflow is the most seamless/elegant. You guys know a lot more about this than I.





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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 12:27:09 am

I have a reason for this, and perhaps you want to check out this thread as I explain all the options. You will want to concern yourself with the SD part of the equation (they are using a DVX100shot @ 24p) I have to run right now, but will back on later and if you have any more questions, please post back and I will give you my thoughts. I am fully aware of the SDX and how it shoots 24p, we use it all the time. The reason I am asking you is you have many options when you need to make a progressive timeline from interlace. it's up to you on what looks best, but you will have to do some testing, and I can provide what I think is the ultimate in quality, but it comes with a price of a bunch of work that perhaps isn't worth it to you or will meet your budget.

What's your final deliverable?

Jeremy




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Ken Zukin
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 12:35:57 am

Jeremy,

that thread is no longer available to read. Still awaiting your response.

Ken


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 12:43:49 am

Woops. Try this.


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Ken Zukin
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 1:44:21 am

Very confusing....perhaps I'm looking for a simple solution to a complex problem. Would it help if I record the footage in the field @24PA....as opposed to 24P?



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 6:31:19 am

OK. I have ideas for you, but not tonight.

More in the AM.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 2:53:19 pm

OK, Ken. What format do you need to deliver to PBS? D5? DVCPro HD? HDCam? What frame rate?

Once I know this, I can tailor my answer to fit you.

Jeremy


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Ken Zukin
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 3:56:09 pm

I've got a call into their prod. mgr., and am trying to find this out - will repost when I know.
Gracias.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 4:01:39 pm

de nada


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Ken Zukin
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 18, 2007 at 7:15:50 pm

The answer: DVCPRO HD / 29.97


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 19, 2007 at 3:09:03 am

Alright. You have some decisions to make.

The easiest thing to do is simply capture your footage using the ioHD or the AJ1400 deck to do the upconvert. The results will be about the same. The problem is that there will be some frame interpolation going on, meaning you have 24p footage with 3:2 pulldown that will be upconverted to 720p60. so that means your pulldown frames will have to get interpolated to progressive frames. It might look a bit funky, but maybe you will like it.

So what are your options? Remove the pulldown to get true 23.98 media, upscale to to a 720p23.98 timeline and layoff, letting FCP do the scale and render. FCP will add the proper pulldown when laying off to get your footage up to 720p60. NO worries there.

the next thing you can do is let compressor do your upconvert. I have had good luck with this and it works pretty well. It is still best to remove the pulldown first as the quality will come out much better.

The next option is to get your footage upconverted by a Teranex or Alchemist system. This will yield the absolute best quality, but it will cost you some money.

I encourage you to test test test. ALso, a bit of advice. When upconverting footage using the ioHD and the 1400 deck, footage shot in 30p will look a little better as each SD 30p frame will get doubled to bring it up to 60p. This means that there's no field/frame interpolation going on, just scaling from SD to HD.

Jeremy


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Ken Zukin
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 19, 2007 at 5:24:41 pm

Many thanks for the detailed workflows. I'll test. If I do record in the field @ 30 fps progressive, and then upconvert using the IO HD to 60 fps, won't I lose the "filmic" look of 24fps that I'm attempting in the first place?
Thanks.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 19, 2007 at 11:47:13 pm

[Ken Zukin] "won't I lose the "filmic" look of 24fps that I'm attempting in the first place?"

30p does not look like 24p, but it odes not look like 60i or 60p either. It's a look all of its own. IT retains a bit of judder like 24p, but it is less. The motion is not super smooth like it is in 60i. So yes and no. You still retain a progressive look. This process is all about getting the best upconvert for your money. 30p temporally fits better into a 60p upconvert without doing any frame interpolation. You can get good quality out of a 24p upconvert as well, but not just through a straight 60p capture, if that makes any sense to you.

Jeremy


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Ken Zukin
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 19, 2007 at 11:54:44 pm

Yeah, Jeremy, I'm well aware of the "look" of 30 progressive -- my client wants the film-like artifacts of 24 fps. I will do some experimenting re: upconverting. Thanks for the help.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: dv50 to HD workflow
on Dec 19, 2007 at 11:57:46 pm

No worries. 30p definitely does not look like video, you can tell your client that! ;)

Remember, you can create a 24p workflow, it just won't be a one button process.

Also, if you care to, please post back with the results. I am always curious to hear why people make the decisions they do. Also, if you need more help, post back as well.

Jeremy


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