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kona vs Black Magic (HDCam FCP workflow)

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arbolito
kona vs Black Magic (HDCam FCP workflow)
on Oct 10, 2006 at 4:18:05 pm

We have a project that we filmed in HDCAM 1080p23.98 and we plan to
offline on our FCP system. Can anyone recommend a workflow and
equipment for us? Here's what we hope to do:

-we want to capture from our HD masters through a card that can
convert our 1080p23.98 footage to DV25 (DV NTSC 29.97) as we load,
preserving TC that we will be able to use for our online. Can this
downconvert happen as we load? Which card is necessary- do we need a
Kona 3 or is a Black Magic Decklink HD Extreme sufficient? Which
HDCAM deck will be most reliable and affordable to rent?

-we plan to online on a Nitrous and finish 1080i59.94. Are there any
issues we should plan to encounter going from our DV NTSC 29.97
offline project into our online?


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Ed
Re: kona vs Black Magic (HDCam FCP workflow)
by
on Oct 10, 2006 at 5:38:54 pm

Since this is the AJA IO forum, and you don't ask anything related to it, I suggest you post in either the AJA Kona, Blackmagic, FCP,
or HD High End forum. You asked questions related to all of those products and workflows.
Ed


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Bob Zelin
Re: kona vs Black Magic (HDCam FCP workflow)
on Oct 10, 2006 at 11:06:32 pm

you are crazy. Either work with AVID products, or work with FCP products. The FCP products (both Blackmagic and AJA) can produce the SAME image quality as the Nitris. If you are finishing with a Nitris, it might have an AJA Xena card in it. The Nitris is NOT better quality than the AJA or Blackmagic products.

Unless you are ready to work with Automatic Duck, if I were you, I would buy a copy of Media Composer Software only or AVID Xpress Pro, get a AVID Mojo SDI, and edit with this, only if you are going to finish with the Symphony/Nitris package. You will have lot less aggrivation.

However, you can forget the Nitris, get the Kona 3 card, and do the entire HD project, at IDENTICAL QUALITY right in your FCP system.

Bob Zelin


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Tom Matthies
Re: kona vs Black Magic (HDCam FCP workflow)
on Oct 12, 2006 at 2:45:57 pm

I used the Kona3 card to do just what you proposed in the above post. It will downconvert on the fly as you bring the footage into FCP. I used a Sony HDW-F500 to bring in the footage for the offline and the online as well. It worked fine with only a couple of issues, in particular the sync reference for playing back at 23.98 fps. There is a setup in the deck itself to switch the reference to internal for playback. Set the Kona3 reference to freerun while capturing and it will work without problems. If you are going to offline at 23.98 and online at 29.97 keep in mind the timecode weirdness that may result from the different frame rates.

As for conforming on a Nitrus system, use Automatic Duck for the transfer and it should work. Personal preferences aside (I usually use Final Cut, but we also run a pair of Avid Symphonys here) the idea of conforming on a Nitrus is not all that dumb. Even though pixel for pixel the quality should be comparable, the Nitrus does offer a number if advantages. It's color corrector is far superior to FCP's color correction. Unless you buy a plugin such as Final Touch for FCP, the Nitrus CC is one of the best in the business. Color grading on the Nitrus would be a good reason all by itself. Use the right tool for the job.

And that, folks, is one of the few times you will EVER hear me praising an Avid system. Mark you calendars! Today was the day. :)
tom


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arbolito
Re: kona vs Black Magic (HDCam FCP workflow)
on Oct 12, 2006 at 7:20:20 pm

Does anyone have experience using the Sony JH-3 deck? It seems that
it can add pulldown and downconvert 1080p23.98 to DV25 (29.97) for us
on our load-in (over firewire 400), bypassing our need for any Kona 3
card or Black Magic card at all. Thanks for the help.


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Bob Zelin
Re: kona vs Black Magic (HDCam FCP workflow)
on Oct 12, 2006 at 10:55:05 pm

I am saddened by your intended process. It appears that your only concern is how to accomplish this as cheaply as possible - avoiding the use of any AJA or Blackmagic product. However you are shooing with a Sony CineAlta camera,(a very expensive camera) and will finish with a Nitris - one of the most expensive edit systems on the market today. I don't get what is going on.

To answer your question - yes, the JH-3 has an iLink port, and has a 2:3 pulldown feature, so anything you shoot will be pulled down to 29.97, so you can go in DV25. However, as you have been told by TWO OF US - you will need to use Automatic Duck ($499) to convert the FCP list into an AVID list, to do your conform.

I have no idea of why you are shooting with the best HD gear, finishing with a top of the line HD edit system, and want to do the actual edit - one of the most important parts of the job - as cheaply as possible. This makes no sense to me. In addition, I think that you have some balls asking on both the AJA and Blackmagic forums, how you can avoid using these products.

If you proceed with this process, you will need Automatic Duck to convert your FCP list to AVID. If I find out that you do not purchase a legal copy of Automatic Duck to do this, you will be punished.

Bob Zelin




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Oliver Peters
Re: kona vs Black Magic (HDCam FCP workflow)
on Oct 16, 2006 at 12:58:25 am

It isn't essential to purchase any card. Workflow:

1. Dub HDCAM 23.98 with pulldown to DV 29.97 with visual TC "burn-in" to verify TC accuracy.
2. Capture DV into FCP and offline edit.
3. Avoid nests; keep slomos constant speed; create workaround for freezes.
4. Use Automatic Duck to generate OMF for Avid DS Nitris or Avid Symphony Nitris (I don't think you specified). This should be a 29.97 project file on both systems.
5. Note: be sure that when you dub HDCAM 23.98 w/PD and when you online edit, that the machine TC output is set the same way each time. The tapes MUST be set to DF or NDF in the VTR menu the same way in each of these processes.
6. Conform and then rebuild effects and color correction.

Good luck.

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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