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1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6

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Chuck Kahn
1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Nov 29, 2011 at 7:11:20 pm

On our MacPro I can't seem to get HDMI video to display when the format is set to 1080sf23.98. Switching FCP7 to 1080p23.98 works, but Avid MC6 doesn't seem to have the ability to switch to 1080p23.98 and the KONA format setting is greyed out. Avid MC will display 23.98 in NTSC or 720p settings but not 1080p. 1080i works in 29.97 and 59.94 Avid projects. Is 1080sf23.98 supposed to work with KONA LHi and Avid? I installed the I/O plug-in and 10.0.1 drivers from here:

http://www.aja.com/support/avid/index.php






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AJA Sales Department
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Nov 29, 2011 at 7:37:53 pm

The KONA LHi does support 1080PsF 23.98 output from Avid Media Composer 6, but only via the SDI and component outputs. HDMI does not typically offer support for PsF, only true progressive or interlace 1080. As you noted in your post, some applications provide the ability to change the output to true progressive, thereby enabling the ability to use the HDMI output, but the Avid Media Composer software does not provide this capability. If possible, route SDI or component to your monitor. If that is not possible, you might consider using a converter, such as the AJA HDP2, that provides a "force progressive" capability to take an incoming PsF signal and produce a true progressive output for HDMI monitoring.

If you have additional questions, please don't hesitate to contact AJA Technical Support for assistance.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Chuck Kahn
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Nov 29, 2011 at 7:51:14 pm

So how is it that the Blackmagic Intensity Pro is able to display to HDMI from Avid MC6 1080p/23.976 projects? I started testing MC6 with the Blackmagic card and have now seem to hit a roadblock with KONA LHi.



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AJA Sales Department
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Nov 29, 2011 at 7:57:07 pm

Without knowing specifics about another company's hardware/software implementation, it is difficult to say how such support would be provided.

If you have questions about your AJA product, please feel free to contact AJA Technical Support for assistance.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Dec 2, 2011 at 8:15:01 pm

1080psf (also known as 1080sf) 23.98 is not in the HDMI spec. 1080p 23.98 is. You will need a converter to make 1080p or an SDI HD monitor. I'm using the AJA HI-5 3G. Or the one mentioned above. Found this out the hard way too on my HDMI only digital input monitor. I have an AJA LHi. Great card.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.0 and 5.5, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Chuck Kahn
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Dec 2, 2011 at 8:20:37 pm

Final Cut Pro can switch to 1080p23.98 and play via HDMI through the Kona LHi. And the Blackmagic Intensity Pro plays Avid MC6 1080p/23.98 projects via its HDMI out. Why do these exceptions work?



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Jim Wiseman
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Dec 2, 2011 at 8:35:17 pm

Because 1080p is in the HDMI spec. 1080psf is not.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.0 and 5.5, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Chuck Kahn
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Dec 2, 2011 at 9:14:53 pm

Well, the Avid Project type states that it is 1080p/23.976 -- no "psf" in the name there at all. So why isn't the Kona LHi displaying that over HDMI?



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AJA Sales Department
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Dec 2, 2011 at 11:55:44 pm

While Avid names the format in the Media Composer UI as "1080p/23.976", that applies only to the media on the disk; media on the disk is, by nature, strictly progressive. However, "over-the-wire", the video output uses progressive segmented frames (akin to interlaced video, but both fields represent the same temporal instance; you will note that some Sony CRTs even report "1080/48i"). The output from the Avid for 1080p/23.976 "over-the-wire" is 1080PsF/23.976 (aka 1080PsF 23.98). As stated previously, HDMI does not offer support for PsF, only true progressive or interlaced 1080 signals.

Since the Avid Media Composer configures the video output of the AJA hardware, resulting in 1080PsF output, the HDMI output on the KONA LHi is not supported; as noted before, SDI and component analog video from the KONA LHi do support PsF. One simple way to see the operation is to launch the Avid Media Composer software, use the 1080p/23.976 setting and observe how the AJA Control Panel reports "AJA Device in use by Avid" and that the format, set by the Avid software, is "1080sf23.98" in the AJA Control Panel.

If the Avid software offered an option to configure the video output to 1080p/23.976 - true progressive "over-the-wire" - then the KONA LHi card would display "1080p23.98" and the HDMI output could be used, however such a control is not offered at this time in the Avid software or the AJA Control Panel application. Some other NLE applications do allow the user to select between 1080p true progressive or 1080PsF progressive segmented frame output. In those applications, the HDMI output on the KONA LHi could be used if the application was set to a 1080p 23.98 output.

--
AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com


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Michael Rothenberg
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Dec 21, 2011 at 10:02:32 pm

Sure wish I had read this thread before I went out and bought a new monitor. I thought the reason I wasn't seeing Avid's "1080p23.98" via my Kona LHi HDMI out was that my old ca. 2005 monitor didn't support 1080p. Just set the new one up and got the behavior as described above.

I will try to use my SDI - DVI/HDMI converter and see if I have better results. (Because it IS a nice new monitor and I don't want to have to pack it up.) Thanks for this thread.

Michael

Michael Rothenberg
Peak Productions


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Jim Wiseman
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Dec 3, 2011 at 12:09:45 am

Call Avid. One of the joys of dealing with them. I was their dealer here for six years. Then it would have cost you $5000 to make the call. I hear they are trying to improve their support. I hope that is true, because when I finish a 2 year project I'm going to try out MCP6. AJA support is superb. But this is not an Avid problem, I suspect. HDMI is what it is. It will not show 23.98 1080psf. In Final Cut you can put it on a 1080p timeline or a 1080i 29.97 timeline. Then it will show. Personally, I want to see what is native coming from my camera, and many now are psf. Then you can master at whatever frequency and res you need. Best of luck. Seriously.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.0 and 5.5, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Jim Wiseman
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Dec 3, 2011 at 12:13:46 am

Call Avid. One of the joys of dealing with them. I was their dealer here for six years. Then it would have cost you $5000 to make the call. I hear they are trying to improve their support. I hope that is true, because when I finish a 2 year project I'm going to try out MCP6. AJA support is superb. HDMI is what it is. It will not show 23.98 1080psf. In Final Cut you can put it on a 1080p timeline or a 1080i 29.97 timeline. Then it will show. Personally, I want to see what is native coming from my camera, and many now are psf. Then you can master at whatever frequency and res you need. Best of luck. Seriously. Said much more elegantly by the gentleman from AJA above, who beat me to it.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.0 and 5.5, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Jim Wiseman
Re: 1080sf23.98 on KONA LHi in FCP7 & Avid MC6
on Dec 3, 2011 at 12:15:44 am

Sorry for the double post. Thought I was just editing.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.0 and 5.5, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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