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Totally Lost

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keith mcgregor
Totally Lost
on Oct 31, 2011 at 6:31:01 pm

Hi everyone, I have been digging around for about a day now and I cannot get a specific answer or a scenario to work for us. I know posting here will begin the end of my search as you all help more than the actual companies themselves (I have asked AJA for help but it's only been a day so I can't complain yet.)

I work at a digital video school where the IT dept. has changed the login for the computers for the students, each student gets their own login account on any machine. Now we are having difficulty in keeping our 1 Kona LHi happy in the edit bay. It will not playback to the external grading monitor through FCP or color. Granted the monitor is an older SD but it looks superb through After Effects without fiddling with anything. I have tried multiple set-ups in FCP to get real-time playback. No luck. All I get is a single frame. I have read the other posts and tried the solutions with no luck. I followed the (or what I think is) the proper setup:
Video is both Pro Res 422 LT and DVCPro1080 running at 23.98, so my easy setup is for ProRes 422 1080.
Sequence settings are HDTV 1920x1080 square pixels with ProRes 422 as the codec.
Video playback is AJA ProRes 422 1920x1080
In the AJA control panel we have to set our primary to 525i out of the SDI to get anything since it's an older SD CRT monitor, (school too cheap for real HD coloring monitor as IT deems it unnecessary for color grading, proves they know nothing, go figure it's IT)

For some reason it was working fine with 1280 material @ 29.97 a month ago but now that other users will be using the edit bay with mixed media and frame rates (remember they are students) they will always have to change their settings per project. What are the real settings to be for 1920 ProRes 422?
Does it really depend on the codec if the card is playing it out? Why does it not see the monitor for Color? It works fine with AE and gives us only the frame the current time indicator is resting on and absolutely nothing from Color. And yes, they will be working off their externals through FW800.
We are running 2- 30 incher cinema displays each with their own card and the Kona LHi, with nothing to the card only going out to the monitor. Any help from this knowledge base would lift my spirits and be able to relax the impatient beast that is students.

Running: Mac Pro Dual Six core
Dual 30in monitors
32 gig memory
2 internal HD's
Kona LHi
nothing else.

Thanks a million! Any other info, just ask away!
-Keith

Reality? What did you make it?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Totally Lost
on Oct 31, 2011 at 7:04:03 pm

[keith mcgregor] "In the AJA control panel we have to set our primary to 525i out of the SDI to get anything since it's an older SD CRT monitor, "

For down-converting (which is what you are doing) you need the primary to be set from an AJA easy setup in FCP (AJa 1080i or 1080psf23.98 ProRes, whatever the frame rate is appropriate) and then in the control panel you set the secondary to 525i, and make sure the output is set to secondary and not primary. You should see a downconvert icon in the control panel like this, but perhaps you want it on your analog component out:



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keith mcgregor
Re: Totally Lost
on Oct 31, 2011 at 7:45:25 pm

Hmmm. Ours doesn't look like that at all, the selections are on the upper left-handed side. But Yeah, I tried setting it for the 1080 but all I got in FCP was static. I made sure to set everything to the same setting but still just static. And absolutely nothing for Color, I have tried and tried. Plus it doesn't have Secondary (downconvert) or Primary (native), just primary and secondary, no native. And there is nothing coming in as nothing is plugged into it. I can find nothing about setting it up through the user manual, it just doesn't state anything on it.
Thanks for your prompt reply, that's why I love the cow!

Reality? What did you make it?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Totally Lost
on Oct 31, 2011 at 7:49:54 pm

[keith mcgregor] "Hmmm. Ours doesn't look like that at all, the selections are on the upper left-handed side. "

Yes, that was an old pic from the older drivers that was cached here on the cow. Sorry about that, it works the same way, though.

Right click (or option click) the output triangle (analog component) Choose secondary from the drop down, then right click again and choose 525i.

If that doesn't work, write back.

Jeremy


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keith mcgregor
Re: Totally Lost
on Oct 31, 2011 at 9:33:57 pm

Very weird. Thanks so much for your patience. I changed the playback settings in FCP to 1080psf 23.98 and the Kona to what you suggested. (Don't understand their unique nomenclature when I haven't heard of this before, anywhere, psf?.) Whatever the difference is I still don't know. The control panel says it's Primary (framebuffer) is 525i 29.97 and the downconvert is set to 525i 23.98. Weird, but now it plays back in FCP to the monitor at full frame rate, but Color still won't recognize it when I choose either the same playback setting as FCP or any other for that matter. The real goal is for it to work in Color as our students need to know the importance of a color-grading monitor and to get used to using one, but finally it works in FCP. I told the student they need to have their footage at the same frame rate for editing and for color but to them stepping through compressor is too much work (pansies) and believe everything should work in the same sequence despite their codecs and frame rates. I am also going through the Color manual and it states it works with Kona cards but no more info than that. Is it true that the second monitor would be a problem with color?
I hope there aren't some newer drivers for it as I have no control over that and our IT dept is slow as molasses. I still keep opening up the user manual hoping to find some hidden paragraph that states: "To use in Apple Color, apply these settings" or something similar, but nope.
Thanks a million! Keith

Reality? What did you make it?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Totally Lost
on Oct 31, 2011 at 10:01:07 pm

Hi Keith. Let's start over.

Start with the Kona control panel.

Right click ont he analog out and choose secondary from the drop down.

Right lick again, and choose 525i from the drop donw.

Go to FCP.

Hit control-q and choose an AJA KOna easy setup that matches the frame rate/codec of the timeline.

If the timeline is 108p 23.98 ProRes, then choose the AJA Kona LHi 1080 psf 23.98 ProRes timeline.

Yes, you must use psf for most baseband workflows .

Now hit play.

Does it work?

Jeremy


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keith mcgregor
Re: Totally Lost
on Oct 31, 2011 at 10:03:44 pm

Yes, it plays at full frame rate. Thanks a mill!
-Keith

Reality? What did you make it?


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keith mcgregor
Re: Totally Lost
on Nov 1, 2011 at 1:26:36 pm

Sorry, had to leave last night so FCP plays back full rate but Color is still not seeing it even when I set it the same as the card. Hmmmm...
thanks!
-Keith

Reality? What did you make it?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Totally Lost
on Nov 1, 2011 at 3:34:08 pm

Color should be set to AJA Kona LHi 1080psf23.98 10bit, and then also have the down-convert setup in the control panel.

Jeremy


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keith mcgregor
Re: Totally Lost
on Nov 1, 2011 at 3:45:32 pm

Thanks for your help and patience. All is set for FCP, not a problem there but all I get is a black screen in Color. Video output is set at AJA KonaLHi 1080psf 23.98 10 bit. Is there a check box I just don't see? Or are we just out of luck. The color manual has no good info about using external monitors. "To turn on external video monitoring Choose an option from the Video Output pop-up menu, in the User Prefs tab of the Setup room."
Yeah, but when it doesn't work then what? I am so naive about the Kona card and their user manual seems pretty worthless to me. Is there no troubleshooting steps to take? I've trashed prefs for FCP and Color and have done restarts but nothing has changed.
Thanks again!
-Keith

Reality? What did you make it?


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walter biscardi
Re: Totally Lost
on Nov 1, 2011 at 3:55:20 pm

[keith mcgregor] "All is set for FCP, not a problem there but all I get is a black screen in Color. "

If FCP still running in the background? If so, quit FCP. When you run both at the same time, they can compete for the Kona output resulting in a black screen.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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keith mcgregor
Re: Totally Lost
on Nov 1, 2011 at 4:29:33 pm

Yep, I quit FCP and launched Color separately but still no luck. The AJA guy I have been emailing says it's a curious thing. Could it be the many users we have on the system mucking things up? I am trying to sign in as faculty but now I am running into permission problems that have nothing to do with this problem. Or maybe it does? Might it only work for 1 account on the machine and not a load of floating accounts? (that's how IT describes their new login system.
Thanks for the replies! Still struggling to make it work.
-Keith

Reality? What did you make it?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Totally Lost
on Nov 1, 2011 at 4:37:38 pm

[keith mcgregor] "Could it be the many users we have on the system mucking things up?"

That was going to be my next guess. Do you have an admin account on that machine? Does it work there?


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keith mcgregor
Re: Totally Lost
on Nov 1, 2011 at 4:44:58 pm

Well, now the problem is, is that the IT dept won't give me admin access anymore even though I took care of this place for over 5 years, and I'm still waiting on them to respond (they are very slow, mentally and physically) so I can't test the admin account, but that would only tell me that their new floating system "for security" is a bad idea, which I have been telling them since they did it. It took them over 6 months to get Maya working right so I should expect no less.
Thanks for your continued patience in this matter. The Cow rocks.
-Keith

Reality? What did you make it?


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gary adcock
Re: Totally Lost
on Nov 1, 2011 at 3:58:02 pm

Color is a separate application, you seem to be implying that if it works in one place it will work everywhere, that's is not the case.

Have you setup the Color.app output Preferences to use the Kona Card for output and playback.

This is totally separate from the prefs on the card or in FCP.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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keith mcgregor
Re: Totally Lost
on Nov 1, 2011 at 4:36:22 pm

Hi there sir. Yep I know it's a separate app and I meant to say I trashed it's prefs as well as FCP, and I have " Video output is set at AJA KonaLHi 1080psf 23.98 10 bit." in setup room as per the settings, even though when I opened a FCP project with different frame rate and size than yesterday the card played back without any problems, I didn't even change the Control Panel settings when it was a pain to get it to work yesterday. Please tell me that Kona card doesn't like mixed frame rates and sizes on the FCP timeline so I can stress the importance to the students of conforming all your footage before editing. Running it by itself and still no luck, only a black frame. All settings are as the AJA guy and previous poster had mentioned. What I don't get is that After Effects sees it without needing to do anything and at every setting I have tried last night, weird.
Thanks for all your replies!
Still struggling to get this to work.
-Keith

Reality? What did you make it?


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keith mcgregor
Re: Totally Lost
on Aug 17, 2012 at 3:08:10 pm

Yes I know, it's a year later and I just wanted to let others know the problem was with the machine having 2 video cards installed along with the kona. Removing one makes it all work fine.

Reality? What did you make it?


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