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Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 –No Go?

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Jason Jenkins
Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 –No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 1:18:14 am

I'm trying to see if I can get Premiere CS5.5 to play nicely with my Kona LHe card. I've got the latest driver and Adobe plugins installed. AJA recommends booting into 64 bit mode, but apparently my old MacPro 1,1 just won't do it. Does this mean that I'm out of luck? As it is now, trying to edit AVCHD footage in an AJA timeline in Premiere brings my system to its knees (very sluggish). Meanwhile, FCP7 does work just fine (converting to ProRes).

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 2:24:52 am

It's looking like an 8 core Mac will be the minimum to run Adobe Premiere Pro CS 5.5 / AJA Kona combination. We have a single four core machine and while it can play with FCP fine and ProRes, the activity monitor shows that the CPUs completely max out with Premiere and the Kona playing a ProRes timeline. This causes dropped frames continuously. Remarkably though, the system does keep playing, it doesn't just grind to a halt like FCP would with the dropped frames.

When I switched over to one of our 8 core machines, everything went beautifully. Still testing, but it's looking like the four core machine is not going to cut it for this configuration.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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walter biscardi
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 2:28:11 am

And by the way, ensure that you boot the Mac in 64bit mode when testing. Default is 32bit mode.

that's the one thing I have to ensure tomorrow when I get back in to the shop. Make sure the 4 core machine was in 64 bit mode.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Jason Jenkins
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 4:07:31 am

[walter biscardi] "And by the way, ensure that you boot the Mac in 64bit mode when testing."

That's just the thing; the MacPro 1,1 won't run in 64 bit mode.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!


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François Grivel
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Nov 17, 2011 at 1:29:40 pm

Hi all,

I also have problems to switch from FCP to Premiere Pro with AJA Kona LHe.

Here is my configuration:
- Mac Pro 2x2.66GHz Quad-Core Xeon with 8GB DDR3 RAM
- 64 bits Kernel enabled
- AJA Kona LHe with KL-Box
- Premiere Pro CS 5.5 update 5.5.2
- Drivers Aja Kona 9.1
- AJA Adobe Plugins 9.1

I started by installing a fresh version of the AJA drivers and then the Adobe plugin.
I can see and configure AJA hardware in Premiere Pro and I can even connect to VTR correctly.
The Kona is apparently well recognized, the scrubbling over the timeline works well with no latency, the monitor send video...

The problem is that I can't have a real time smooth playback (on the timeline or on an individual clip).
My sequence & media are Apple ProRes HQ, no render is required.
It play maximum 1s and then stop.

I can't find the reason...
My whole project is stored on 2 stripped hard drives that have enough speed.
The activity monitor doesn't show any sign of overstrain when I playback.

Any help is welcome. I will retry a fresh install of driver & plugins.

Interesting thread by the way!

Cheers!

Foué


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 4:05:49 am

[walter biscardi] "it's looking like the four core machine is not going to cut it for this configuration."

Thanks, Walter. That's just what I needed; some real world experience. I won't spend any more time trying to get Premiere to work with the Kona on this machine. It'll be just FCP7 for now.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!


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John Pale
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 4:21:43 am

The Mac Pro 1,1 cannot run the 64 bit kernel. The EFI firmware is 32bit on that machine. Oddly enough, you can run the 64 bit Windows 7 kernel in Bootcamp, so Apple might be able to fix it, if they actually wanted to.

For most practical purposes it doesnt make any difference. It uses 64 bit processors. You can run 64 bit apps with no speed hit and you can use large amounts of RAM. in this case though, it might be a problem, as the interface with the PCIe bus is stuck at 32bit.


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Drew South
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 5:37:00 pm

Walter,

So your single 4 core did not work--what about a dual 4 core? Am I also going to have problems there?

Drew South


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Tom Daigon
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 6:41:12 pm

Im running CS 5.5 with an early 2008 dual quad core stocked with 8 gigs of ram. The system is running like butter. This only varies with the codec of the clips I use in PrP 5.5. Canon 5DM2 clips slow the system down a bit due to the highly compressed h.264 files. I intend to boost the ram to 24 gigs to aid the MPE engines functioning.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 6:47:33 pm

[Tom Daigon] "Im running CS 5.5 with an early 2008 dual quad core stocked with 8 gigs of ram. The system is running like butter. This only varies with the codec of the clips I use in PrP 5.5. Canon 5DM2 clips slow the system down a bit due to the highly compressed h.264 files. I intend to boost the ram to 24 gigs to aid the MPE engines functioning."

Tom,

Are you running a Kona card as well? Do you have a CUDA enabled graphics card in the mix?

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!


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Tom Daigon
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 6:57:49 pm

I am running a Kona 3 and the new drivers. My display card is just a non CUDA ATI 3875.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Drew South
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 7:02:02 pm

Good to hear, Tom.

90% of our footage is XDCam (optical disc not ex). Anyone have any caveats using XDCam with Premiere? Other than I will have to buy the Main Concepts plugin (over $800!) to output back to XDCam disc.

I'm one of the soon to be Final Cut refugees. We have 3 edit suites on a Maxx Digital Final Share System RAID. All 3 suites have AJA Kona Lhi or Kona 3 cards installed. So, Premiere makes sense and should be an easy switch. I'm just trying to find any details that I may have overlooked.

Drew South


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Tom Daigon
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 7:14:07 pm

The XDCAM codec is really more an acquisition codec. I would never use it as a mastering codec. Have you considered mastering as Prores like we all used to do in FCP ?

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 7:34:57 pm

Dual 4 core is an 8 core so you're good to go.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Drew South
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 8:21:47 pm

Walter - Well Duh! That makes sense--My brain wasn't engaged on that one, Thanks.

Tom - We do use the ProRes workflow some--but most of our work gets output back to the XDCam optical disc. In order to do that, I have to output it as an XDCam 1080i 60 VBR sequence to the XDCam deck. So staying in the native XDCam sequence makes sense to us. Quality and render times are no different. I'm open to all ideas though--enlighten me if you think we should do differently. In switching to Premiere Pro this will a be a moot point anyway, right?

It's nice to have an adult conversation with intelligent folks like yourselves after being bombarded with all the hype and spastic panic that has been the world of FCS over the last couple of weeks--Thanks guys!

Drew South


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 8:52:14 pm

[Drew South] "Tom - We do use the ProRes workflow some--"

That's the part we're still trying to figure out here. We won't need the ProRes workflow anymore with Premiere Pro so what will be our final mastering codec? Not sure yet and something I'm talking to a bunch of folks about to get their opinions. Once FCP goes away from our machines, that means we won't necessarily have the ProRes codec to write to any longer. We'll be able to read it thanks to third party plugs, but I"m not sure I want to write to an Apple Proprietary codec any longer.

Lots to be figured out moving forward!

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Jeff Bernstein
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 9:04:53 pm

Walter,

Have you played with the Cineform codec yet? It seems to be one of the better options with multiple quality levels, multiple platform support, and a road to 3D.

This product http://www.bitjazz.com/en/products/sheervideo/ was essentially killed by the release of ProRes. Now that Apple is on the receiving end, this solution may get new life.


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Tom Daigon
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 8, 2011 at 10:00:44 pm

Drew - "Tom - We do use the ProRes workflow some--but most of our work gets output back to the XDCam optical disc. In order to do that, I have to output it as an XDCam 1080i 60 VBR sequence to the XDCam deck. So staying in the native XDCam sequence makes sense to us. Quality and render times are no different. I'm open to all ideas though--enlighten me if you think we should do differently. In switching to Premiere Pro this will a be a moot point anyway, right?"

If you are archiving to the XDCAM I guess it makes sense to master with that codec. But using an acquisition codec for mastering makes me a bit nervous. Walter brings up a great point about not relying on Apples codec, especially in light of their current actions. Its to bad, with Alexa and others adopting it for use. And it makes such wonderfully clean compression. I feel somewhat on the fence about which mastering codecs to standardize to in the near future. I have heard good and bad about Cineform and dont know enough to make any decisions.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 9, 2011 at 10:48:40 am

[Jeff Bernstein] "Have you played with the Cineform codec yet? It seems to be one of the better options with multiple quality levels, multiple platform support, and a road to 3D."

Not yet, but this is what a lot of folks are recommending to me as we move away from FCP. Also wondering about whether Avid would release the DNxHD codec as a stand alone item for a mastering codec.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Tom Daigon
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 9, 2011 at 2:41:11 pm

Walter I think your request has been answered. If I am reading this correctly, these codecs allow the reading and creation of DNxHD files.

Avid QuickTime Codecs LE 2.1 Download [263545]


Where can I get the QuickTime Codecs package 2.1 for Leopard, Win XP, and Vista?

The QuickTime codecs v2.1 released with Avid Media Composer v4.x, Avid Symphony v4.x, and Avid NewsCutter v8.x can be downloaded below. For more information about these codecs visit the Avid QuickTime Codecs LE 2.1 Specifications page.
Downloads:
Mac_AvidCodecsLE_2.1.zip
PC_AvidCodecsLE_2.1.zip

These codecs are designed to run on Leopard v.10.5.5 and higher, Vista Business 32 and 64 bit, with SP1, and Windows XP Professional with SP2 or SP3.

This codec package is required to encode SMPTE VC-3 Compliant DNxHD QuickTime files. It will also decode any DNxHD QuickTime file, regardless of its SMPTE VC-3 compliance. If you do not want to encode SMPTE VC-3 Compliant DNxHD files, but still have a need to decode them, use Avid QuickTime Codecs v.2.01

For more information about Avid's DNxHD SMPTE VC-3 Compliance, or to download the DNxHD Codecs necessary to playback SMPTE VC-3 Compliant media in your Avid Editing system, see this article: Professional Editors DNxHD Codec Compliance Issue."



Heres the link...
http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=263545

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Jeff Bernstein
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 10, 2011 at 6:37:44 am

Latest Avid Codecs are here...

http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=392959


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Tom Daigon
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 10, 2011 at 12:43:11 pm

Good catch Jeff. Thanks!

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Robert Brown
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 13, 2011 at 3:11:52 am

I also wanted to add, I've been doing some testing and the different codecs take different amounts of time to render. In PPro you set your Preview Rendering codec and DNX is much slower than ProRes. I'm still liking ProRes at the moment. AVC Intra is fast to preview to but a weird one to master to as it creates this whole directory structure to put the file in unless I'm doing something wrong. I also got some pretty nasty sparkles converting an H264 to AVC-I yesterday. Not there in ProRes.

I think this is something PPro really needs to figure out. They need a good codec that is very ProRes like and that has good multigenerational qualities and that works in Mac and Win. Ideally if you rendered out your timeline as previews you should have the option of using those existing render files during export to save time. This is how FCP and Smoke work. Of course Smoke is uncompressed but a lot of clients are going to wonder why you have to re-render it even though you've already rendered it. I work in a lot of tight turnaround situations though.



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walter biscardi
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 13, 2011 at 12:54:08 pm

[Robert Brown] " Of course Smoke is uncompressed but a lot of clients are going to wonder why you have to re-render it even though you've already rendered it. I work in a lot of tight turnaround situations though."

For tight turnaround situations, I'd definitely be considering Smoke if the budget allows. Autodesk was kind enough to send us an evaluation copy which I'm very excited about trying out. Have always seen Smoke from a distance, can't wait to actually take a test drive.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Robert Brown
Re: Kona LHe and Premiere CS5.5 �No Go?
on Jul 14, 2011 at 3:32:12 am

Smoke is an awesome system. I did the training classes at Autodesk in Venice CA which is a great way to learn it as it's not like anything else. I wouldn't call it a fast turn around box though, it's much more of a finesse box. But the keying is great, color correction great, rotoing great and it has a really cool 3d DVE where you can load in 3d objects etc. And the output looks great.

The way to think of the Smoke is as a good - but not great - editor but with Flame like effects abilities. The editing functions are fine but you are limited to one screen so it's harder to deal with larger amounts of material. And some of their methodology is really hard to get used to as far as editing is concerned.

But it's loaded with all the real tools you need like pulldown removal, de-interlace, re-interlace, grain matching etc. to allow you to do some really good comps. And once you finish your comp you just drop it back in your timeline and you can play it out in context in realtime.

But this system uses a methodology where you render as you go and so when you are ready to export, it's rendered. I see why Premiere does it the way it does it but clients will balk at the slow exports - in my world at least.



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