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Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem

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Tim Langston
Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 2, 2010 at 5:20:11 pm

For the past year or two or three I have not been able to shoot Progressive footage because of it looking bad thru my Kona 3 card & breakout box. The footage looks like it has interlaced field reversal. I know about panning too fast and the look you get when doing that, it's not that look, this is more like an image lag or un-stable frames. I've taken my footage into the station I work at and have had an editor ingest it and it looks like it should, I've also taken it to a good friend and it looks great on his AJA system. AJA has walked me through my setting in FCP and all are correct, unless we missed something. They have also sent me a replacement card to see if this corrects the problem, it didn't work. I was wondering if anyone else has had an issue like this?

I shoot using an HPX500, HVX200 and a Canon 7D, all 1080, 720 30p and 24p have this look. I edit on a Mac Pro Dual 2.8GHz Quad Core with 8 Gig Ram, 8 TB Raid hooked onto an Atto R380, monitor it using the component out on the Kona 3's Breakout Box into a Panasonic Plasma and also going Serial Digital out of the Kona 3's Breakout Box into an AJA D5CE then to an old Sony cube monitor. It's got to be a monitoring issue, right?

Thanks for any help or suggestions that you can give me,
Tim

Tim Langston
Cryin' Out Loud Productions
Fort Wayne, IN
http://www.colproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 2, 2010 at 9:06:17 pm

It's all about the settings. If you're working in 720p, there's never any hint of interlacing ever on a properly setup system and your monitoring 720p. If monitoring SD, there could be some interlacing as the signal is converted, same for 1080i (or psf for that matter).


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Tim Langston
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 1:03:39 pm

OK, then what the heck am I missing? How about running over settings for 1080 24pa and 1080 30p for me. I must be forgetting something.

Thanks,
Tim

Tim Langston
Cryin' Out Loud Productions
Fort Wayne, IN
http://www.colproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 1:08:37 pm

First, you tell me what you do to setup, let's say, a 24pA project.


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Tim Langston
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 2:17:33 pm

1080pa

I import my P2 footage into FCP with Advanced Pulldown removal checked. I make sure FCP is at High video playback quality.
Easy Setup AJA Kona 3- 1080p 24 DVCPro HD.
Make sure field dominance is set to none, make sure Motion Filtering Quality is set to best, make sure Master Templates and Motion Projects Quality is set to Best.
Check Clip format and make sure field dominance is set to none.
Make sure Video Playback is set to AJA Kona 3 1080i29.97 8 Bit (1920 x 1080).

Thanks,
Tim

Tim Langston
Cryin' Out Loud Productions
Fort Wayne, IN
http://www.colproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 4:03:24 pm

[Tim Langston] "Easy Setup AJA Kona 3- 1080p 24 DVCPro HD. "

Easy setup should be AJA Kona 3 psf 23.98 DVCPro HD.

Then change the output to 1080i if that's what you want.


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Tim Langston
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 8:28:39 pm

Thanks, did that, frames look more solid but the judder is enough to make one sick. For the look I want I guess I would need to spend over 30 or 40 thousand on a camera??? The HPX500 must not be able to put out the look I'm after. I just don't understand why I can't get it to look a little like some of the shows on HGTV, House Hunters, or Property Virgins, when shot in progressive, you can see that it has some judder but nothing like what I get, maybe it's the price difference in cameras.

Thanks for all your help,
Tim

Tim Langston
Cryin' Out Loud Productions
Fort Wayne, IN
http://www.colproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 8:32:29 pm

[Tim Langston] "I just don't understand why I can't get it to look a little like some of the shows on HGTV, House Hunters, or Property Virgins, when shot in progressive, you can see that it has some judder but nothing like what I get, maybe it's the price difference in cameras. "

Wait, is this you again?:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/193/881323


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Tim Langston
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 8:33:55 pm

Yeap, me again. Still having problems.

Tim Langston
Cryin' Out Loud Productions
Fort Wayne, IN
http://www.colproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 8:42:20 pm

And you have you tried 1080i yet?


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Tim Langston
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 8:46:55 pm

1080i is what I've been stuck shooting for the pass 2 or 3 years, I have never been able to get my progressive to look good. I even sold a monitor thinking it was the monitor doing it. Of course the monitor was 240 lbs. so I was glad to see it go.

Tim

Tim Langston
Cryin' Out Loud Productions
Fort Wayne, IN
http://www.colproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 8:53:12 pm

I don't know what to tell you Tim, They are either shooting 1080p30, but most likely 1080i. I don't think this is a Kona problem.


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Tim Langston
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 9:01:29 pm

Yeah, I thought that to or even a film effect filter. I did speak with them and they told me they were shooting in 1080 24p for most of their shows. Once in awhile an interlaced show comes on, must be older episodes.

I have a buddy with a Red One that has offered to shoot some footage for me, I'll check that on my system and give a follow up.

Again, thanks for putting up with me. I have a one track mind right now and it's on getting my progressive to look like it should. I was even thinking of setting a camera on the screen to see if I can record what it looks like and post that, it's an idea. I'll see what the red footage looks like first.

Tim

Tim Langston
Cryin' Out Loud Productions
Fort Wayne, IN
http://www.colproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 3, 2010 at 9:03:54 pm

[Tim Langston] " I did speak with them and they told me they were shooting in 1080 24p for most of their shows."

ANd do they broadcast in 720p? have you tried cross converting your 1080p24 timeline to 720p60?


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Kurt Jones
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 6, 2010 at 5:20:26 pm

-MAC PRO FCP 6
-AJA KONA LH
-SONY DVW-A500

1280x720 ANIMATION QUICKTIME wont output to tape works fine with the other sequences.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Progressive footage thru Kona 3 looks like a fielding problem
on Nov 7, 2010 at 9:24:58 pm

[Kurt Jones] "1280x720 ANIMATION QUICKTIME wont output to tape works fine with the other sequences."

If you put that Animtaioin file in a ProRes timeline and render, it will work.

You can also use VTR Exchange and use that to ouput in RGB.

Animation is not a real time FCP codec.

Jeremy


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