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Kona 3 Ver 8 bug

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Stuart Smith
Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 25, 2010 at 3:19:40 pm

Hi, we're updating our systems to Ver 8 of the Kona drivers. All the systems are various versions of Intel Mac Pros, running either the most updated leopard or snow leopard.

Running apps that use the Kona card, FCP, after effects etc, the Kona card works fine.

When we switch to something that doesnt use the kona card, like finder, safari etc, The Kona outputs garbled video thats frozen from the last app that used it.

Default video output is set to black and uninstalling/reinstalling the Kona drivers doesnt help.

This definitely seems like a bug, it's more annoying having to explain to clients that there's nothing wrong, than anything else. It's happening on about 80% of our systems
Thanks
Stuart


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 25, 2010 at 3:56:59 pm

TELL US WHICH CARDS....


[Stuart Smith] "When we switch to something that doesnt use the kona card, like finder, safari etc, The Kona outputs garbled video thats frozen from the last app that used it."

Sounds like you are not using the NDD ( No Desktop Display) version of the driver.

This also can happen when you do NOT update the firmware on the kona3 cards also.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Stuart Smith
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 25, 2010 at 4:19:05 pm

[gary adcock] "TELL US WHICH CARDS...."

Graphics cards? unfortunately we're all over the board with those since these Mac Pro's run the gamut from the very first model to the latest, and we've replaced cards along the way as we try new workflows. It's an annoying situation, but one that we've not been able to avoid. Every new Mac Pro comes with a different set of recommended cards to go with it, and cards are discontinued

[gary adcock] "Sounds like you are not using the NDD ( No Desktop Display) version of the driver."

No, all we use is the NDD version. Run into too many Quartz extreme errors with the non NDD

[gary adcock] "This also can happen when you do NOT update the firmware on the kona3 cards also."

No, all the firmware gets updated, everyone's at 64 bit DMA. Also, most of these systems have had a complete rebuild from the OS up on new hard drives. Some going straight to ver 8, some that were rebuilt a couple of months ago went to the last Ver 7 update first, then to Ver 8. Also conflict checker gets run on all of them after a full install.

Since we have so many people on so many systems, I'm pretty rigorous about the rebuild procedure. Nothing except work related apps and plugins gets installed, just the standard stuff - FCP, Adobe creative suite, RedCineX, Cinema4D etc
Thanks for the suggestions though



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Stuart Smith
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 25, 2010 at 4:26:01 pm

Hmm, just found out, when Default Video Output is set to test pattern, it works fine, it's only when it's set to Black does it output garbled video


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 25, 2010 at 4:58:22 pm

[Stuart Smith] "Hmm, just found out, when Default Video Output is set to test pattern, it works fine, it's only when it's set to Black does it output garbled video"

that would indicate a sync issue???

How are you handling house sync?


as for the Card question-
AJA makes a bunch of cards- knowing specifically which video cards ( K3,K3x K2, LHI, LHE etc) does make a difference when you are having issues.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Stuart Smith
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 25, 2010 at 5:26:23 pm

[gary adcock] "that would indicate a sync issue???
How are you handling house sync?"


Pretty sure it's not a sync issue, I've got systems in 3 different cities exhibiting the same problem. With the Ver 7 drivers there's no problems, just when we update to Ver 8. All these systems can lay to tape fine, and none of our audio suites have complained of any problems. Mostly it's AJA and Evertz that's supplying sync and tri-level. We do have one older GVG sync generator in one facility for NTSC. But, our edit and audio suites are laying off to tape on a daily basis in a variety of formats and flavors, so any sync issues are noticed pretty quickly.


[gary adcock] "as for the Card question-
AJA makes a bunch of cards- knowing specifically which video cards ( K3,K3x K2, LHI, LHE etc) does make a difference when you are having issues."


Oh, I see what youre getting at, the Kona 3 in the subject was meant to imply the type of card, not the driver - not very clear.

I didn't know there was different versions of the Kona 3, I have no idea what we're running. More than likely its a combination of all of them, we started upgrading to K3's as soon as they came out and we just bought our most recent one about 4 months ago. I'm not seeing any info about that in the control panel, or in the system profile's PCI Cards page. If the type of K3 card is a factor, I'm not going to be able to pull all those cards for quite some time.
Stuart



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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 25, 2010 at 5:33:55 pm

[Stuart Smith] "Pretty sure it's not a sync issue,"

if you don't test it- you never know.


" Mostly it's AJA and Evertz that's supplying sync and tri-level. "

I have heard of issues between AJA and evertz gear- Call Aja Support to check.


"Oh, I see what youre getting at, the Kona 3 in the subject was meant to imply the type of card, not the driver - not very clear."

DOH!
nor did I notice...

My bad.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Stuart Smith
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 25, 2010 at 6:01:44 pm

[gary adcock] "if you don't test it- you never know."

Yeah, that's true, thanks



[gary adcock] "I have heard of issues between AJA and evertz gear- Call Aja Support to check."

Had no idea about that, thanks, I'll check with them. Good to know since we are just about to buy some more Evertz gear for closed captioning.

Was actually on an Evertz generator in this room, but swapped to the AJA and the problem continued with that generator.

Wait, I'll still check, but if it is a sync issue, that would imply that 2 different generators in this facility alone are having issues. Not to beat a dead horse, but our Pro Tools rooms are VERY finicky when it comes to sync, it's normally our audio guys who first bring those kind of issues to light and they're having no issues, so I really don't think thats it. I will check though.

[gary adcock] "DOH!
nor did I notice..."


haha, thats ok, thanks again
Stuart



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 25, 2010 at 10:42:21 pm

[Stuart Smith] "Wait, I'll still check, but if it is a sync issue, that would imply that 2 different generators in this facility alone are having issues. "

It's not necessarily that they are having issues, it might just be a mismatch of settings.

For instance, if FCP is in 1080p(sf) 23.98 mode, and you switch back to the desktop and your card changes to 60Hz (29.97 or 59.94) and you are still sending 23.98 trisync, you might get the garble garble.

The trick would be to set the card to (p)sf mode while the desktop is selected by right clicking on the frame buffer square and choosing the 23.98 format.

Either that, or it might be an Evertz issue.

Hope that makes sense. If it doesn't, then please ignore me.

Jeremy


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Stuart Smith
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 26, 2010 at 2:29:09 am

Thanks Gary and Jeremy, but this is definitely not a hardware/settings/evertz issue. These sync generators are working fine, we've been using Evertz for years with no problem and checked this one at the end of the day today, and reverting back to Kona 3 driver 7.5 works fine. This is a driver ver 8 issue.

It's happening with GVG, Evertz and AJA generators and NTSC/Tri-level. Every day we have multiple layoffs to HDCam & SR in a variety of flavors. And the lay offs are fine, as they were at the end of the day today. I know you mean well, and I don't want to sound ungrateful, but this most definitely not "operator error". 3D/graphic designers here may not know the Kona inside and out, but our editors definitely do, trust me on that - and I'm seeing it for myself

When switching to an app that doesn't use the kona card, and video output is set to black, we get garbled video on the SDI outputs, when set to test pattern it's fine. Unless the Kona black output and the Kona test pattern output look at sync in different ways, this isn't a sync issue.

However, this doesnt happen on every system, so it very well could be some combination of Mac version/RAM/Kona card/hardware etc that causes it. That troubleshooting would be a nightmare, and it's happening on so many systems with diff configs, I feel it can't be that. I'll admit, 20% of our systems are working fine

With multiple systems in 3 different locations, that have no problems whatsoever with driver ver 7.5, but do with driver ver 8, when using an app that doesnt use the kona card, this is a Kona issue. That's further confirmed by the fact that not only can we lay off to tape from FCP using driver ver8, but all our other systems that are referencing the same sync signals, but using cards other than the Kona3, have no problems, as do our Pro Tools rigs.

Thanks, dont want to stop any info from you guys, appreciate the help. It's not affecting outputs, so it's not that big a deal, but we want black on the broadcast and client monitors when we're in an app that's not using he Kona.

Thanks again
Stuart


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 26, 2010 at 11:42:11 am

Ok then smarty pants. I guess it's time to call AJA. :P


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Jason Livingston
Re: Kona 3 Ver 8 bug
on Aug 31, 2010 at 2:46:42 am

Hi Stuart,
Sorry if this is off topic, but just curious as to why you're considering legacy hardware for closed captioning? The AJA Kona 3 can already do the same thing in software, unless you're doing live broadcasts.

http://cpcweb.com/hdtv/aja.htm

Hope this helps,

Jason Livingston
CPC Closed Captioning


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