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Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape

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Philip Hack
Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape
on Jun 1, 2010 at 2:48:50 pm

I'm running Snow Leopard on a 2.66 8 Core Mac (12GB Ram) with the latest FCP 7 updates all in with a Kona LHi (new drivers, too). I'm using a GSpeed ES Pro 8TB ,4 disk array in Raid 5. The AJA tests tell me my drives don't fall below 200 MB/s on the read side. I've got a project that's 1080i in a 29.97 ProRes sequence that was originally captured on an EX-3 at 23.98. FCP has put in its 2224 pulldown and everything in the timeline is now fully rendered in ProRes at 29.97. When I try to print to video or edit to tape, I get dropped frames every time. It's seemingly random - a few times it's even dropped frames while outputting color bars! I'm outputting to an HDCam deck (trying). The footage that makes it to the deck before the crash looks fine. I've even tried converting it to a single quicktime file using compressor and using that single clip in a new sequence to try to get it to play out and that doesn't work either. Dropped frames all the time, all at different times in the sequence (never got more than 10 minutes of output). I've trashed the prefs, tried a new user - everything short of wiping the machine. The machine has never run anything but FCP and is about a month old. Any ideas?


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Doug Beal
Re: Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape
on Jun 1, 2010 at 3:54:13 pm

2224 puldown? Is there a reason for this cadence?

Re dropping frames. Have you got the same ref running to both the HDCam machine and your Kona card?

Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN


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Philip Hack
Re: Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape
on Jun 1, 2010 at 4:14:51 pm

Hi Doug,

The 2224 pulldown is what FCP does instead of a normal 3:2 pulldown when the conversion is done in the computer. At this point there is no reference going to the either the deck or the Kona card, it's a stand alone system. Thanks!


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape
on Jun 1, 2010 at 5:35:55 pm

Get a black Burst Generator and sync your gear properly b/4 Bob Zelin sees this.


Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta


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John Fishback
Re: Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape
on Jun 1, 2010 at 6:44:44 pm

I'm fairly certain he'd recommend the AJA Gen 10. We have one and it'll do whatever you need.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.8 QT7.6.4 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.2, Motion 4.0.2, Comp 3.5.2, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.2)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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Shane Ross
Re: Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape
on Jun 1, 2010 at 7:06:13 pm

[Philip Hack] "The 2224 pulldown is what FCP does instead of a normal 3:2 pulldown when the conversion is done in the computer. "

Right. Which is why it is STUPID to edit 23.98 in a 29.97 timeline in FCP. Don't. If you need a 29.97 master, let the Kona do the conversion when it outputs. It does the proper 2:3 pulldown. But, that is too late now....if you put your footage into a 23.98 timeline you'd have a LOT of fixing to do, gaps appear everywhere. But in the future, do that.

Yeah, unless you have sync to both, you will have issue outputting. The GEN10 is the way to go.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Philip Hack
Re: Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape
on Jun 1, 2010 at 7:41:17 pm

Hi Shane,

Thanks for the sage advice. The reason for editing 23.98 footage in the timeline is because the show is a mix of interviews, graphics and archival footage. All of the graphics and some of the archival footage come as QTs. That all originates in 29.97. The alternative was to convert all that other material to 23.98 to edit in a 23.98 timeline and then re-convert it on the output, that didn't seem like such a smart idea. The point of my post was not to point out the deficiencies of the FCP pulldown, but rather to find out if anyone knew why my output kept dropping frames when it is only playing back a rendered QT.



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Doug Beal
Re: Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape
on Jun 1, 2010 at 8:31:36 pm

Put your Kona on freerun
tell the HDCam to look at input video for ref
try to lay it out now.
If this works start saving the $390 for a Gen10.
It's entirely possible the 422 from the HDCam in telling the kona frames are being dropped due to lack of sync between the two devices. It may be "standalone" but both devices are "playing" together and somebody's got to drive.
It's like a music thing. The drummer set's time. He would be reference. Now everybody knows where the 1 is.

Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN


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John Fishback
Re: Kona LHi Dropping Frames on Output to Tape
on Jun 1, 2010 at 8:59:53 pm

And the Gen 10's the click track. :)

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.8 QT7.6.4 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.2, Motion 4.0.2, Comp 3.5.2, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.2)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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