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Kona 3 and DNX

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Jef Huey
Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 22, 2010 at 4:34:55 pm

Hello all,

We are using a product called Virtual VTR as a VTR replacement for file based playback. We are using a Mac Pro which has FCP and a Kona 3 on it. The current Avid codecs have been loaded as well. FCP can see and load DNX QT files into timelines and play them.

Virtual VTR claims playback of "any QT codec". Well, I do get playback of a sort of DNX QT files. But there is the problem.

In Avid, when you create a HD 1080i DNX file, the frame rate is listed as 59.94.

But when I go into Virtual VTR and open the AJA settings, the only HD 1080 frame rate is 29.97. And from our experience, this DOES make a difference.

So my question is - Does AJA support HD 1080 59.94 sequences? If not, the broader question is do they support DNX QT files?

Thanks,

Jef


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Shane Ross
Re: Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 22, 2010 at 5:15:57 pm

1080i 59.94 runs at 29.97. 59.94 is the frequency. When you see 1080i and 59.94, that means INTERLACED, and interlaced means two fields...of course...so 59.94 FIELDS per second is 29.97 FRAMES per second.

There is no 1080p 59.94 format other than REALLY high end, and FCP doesn't support that unless you modify an easy setup.

Are you sure it is 59.94 FRAMES per second at 1080? That's pretty rare.

And no, AJA hardware cannot play out DNxHD files. They work fine in FCP, and you can see a still frame, but not full frame playout. For that you need to convert to ProRes.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 22, 2010 at 6:22:22 pm

[Shane Ross] "There is no 1080p 59.94 format other than REALLY high end, and FCP doesn't support that unless you modify an easy setup. "

the Kona 3 has secondary setups for 1080 60p - I used them yesterday on a shoot.
this is requires either a Dual link or 3G connection.


"And no, AJA hardware cannot play out DNxHD files."

Shane
Sorry to mess with your head but Aja TV and VTRX both can playback DNX files with the current drivers (but I have reported issues under 10.6.3).

And I promise not to play on your demo machine again....

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Shane Ross
Re: Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 22, 2010 at 6:28:38 pm

AJA TV and VTR playback do this now? Damn...I'm gonna have to get the latest drivers.

And yeah, leave the demo machine alone! Took Jon to figure out how it worked. Routing a signal through two cards, so it was foreign to all of us.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 22, 2010 at 7:22:08 pm

[Shane Ross] " Routing a signal through two cards, so it was foreign to all of us.
"


yeah,
Sharing some of that knowledge prior to the show it would have helped both of us.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Jef Huey
Re: Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 22, 2010 at 7:37:32 pm

Hi Gary,

I know what AJA TV is, but what is VTRX?

Thanks,

Jef


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 23, 2010 at 1:11:11 pm

[Jef Huey] "I know what AJA TV is, but what is VTRX? "

VTR Exchange another free app from AJA that actually has better deck control for capture and playback than FCP does, even supporting highspeed capture from the 5800 and SRW 1 decks.


As for the Frame Rate vs Field Rate- blame Sony, all but the latest decks all still refer to 60i as 29.97.

Note Jef that I am not having any frame rate issues playing back DNX 1080 60i material and all of the devices I have worked with for the past month leading up to NAB supported the DNX files the same as it did ProRes of the same content.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Jef Huey
Re: Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 22, 2010 at 7:25:42 pm

Hi Shane,

Sorry if I was not clear. I am not talking about 59.94p. I am discussing field based material.

In Avid, they are using the nomeclature of 59.94i. At AJA they seem to be saying 29.97i.

See the following:

http://www.moviola.com/hd_framerate_confusion

If you do an Apple I of a 1080i 29.97 ProRes file it will say of frame rate of 29.97. If you do an Apple I of a DNX 59.94 it will say it has a frame rate of 59.94.

In fact, both of these formats are field based. And one is stating the rate as 29.97 Frames per second. The other is stating 59.94 field per second.

I think that AJA is confusing this metadata because it is actually playing the DNX files at the wrong speed.

I will check our driver versions as noted by Gary.

Have I explained what I am seeing clearly or am I just making things worse?

Thanks,
Jef


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Shane Ross
Re: Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 22, 2010 at 7:31:42 pm

Oh no, you're clear. Good to know you know the 59.94/29.97 confusion. A lot of people don't. I didn't at first. I hate 59.94 when referring to interlaced 29.97. Makes ZERO sense to me. List the frame rate, NOT the field rate.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jef Huey
Re: Kona 3 and DNX
on Apr 22, 2010 at 7:32:49 pm

I guess what I am saying is that we have two companys saying the same thing in two different ways.

29.97 and 59.94i

While these are in fact the same thing, it feels like AJA is seeing the numbers and reacting differently to them.

I think anyway.

Jef


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