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Final Cut Pro Sync Problems

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Abbi Jutkowitz
Final Cut Pro Sync Problems
on Mar 25, 2010 at 4:14:35 pm

Hello,

I'm having some strange (to me) sync issues with my plasma monitor. Final Cut Pro plays in sync, the monitor is out. More detail after my setup info:
Mac Pro 2x2.26 GHz Quad Core Intel Xeon
RAM is 6gb 1066 MHz DDR3
OS 10.6.2
Kona LHi driver 7.5.1 with breakout box
FCP 7.0.2 working with ProRes 422 (Proxy) footage
Panasonic TC-P42S1 1080p TV (using HDMI in from Kona box)

I am working with a simple dailies sequence, about 50 clips, no video gaps in the timeline, only V1, it starts off fine, but about 20 minutes in starts to lose sync. It's out by anywhere from 1-12 frames. I hit pause, then start again. It's in sync for a few seconds and then it's out. I restart, it's in for about 20 minutes, then it's out. I know it's not an issue with the media at the 20 minute mark because it happens this way on multiple sequences and it's only out of sync on the plasma, not the FCP Canvas.

My sequence setting match my clip settings, and my seq settings is AJA Kona LHi 1080psf 23.98 Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy). My Playback setting is 1080p rather than psf since that's the only way I can get it to show up on the monitor. Kona said it should still play in sync with the seq. and playback settings being different. Does this sound correct? Any ideas?

Thanks,
Abbi


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Jay Mahavier
Re: Final Cut Pro Sync Problems
on Mar 26, 2010 at 7:55:15 pm

I'm interested. Put a tail sync mark on the sequence and note the TC. Do an TC accurate edit to tape so that the TC on the tape matches the TC of your timeline. Then see if the tail sync is at the appropriate TC address.

I know, sounds crazy, but I'm having an issue where my video actually drifts by frames being added during an edit to tape and I want to see if it's happening to other users too.

Jay


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Abbi Jutkowitz
Re: Final Cut Pro Sync Problems
on Mar 26, 2010 at 10:07:20 pm

Would that I could do an edit to tape and test it that way but I have no deck with TC and deck control. I'm getting dailies from RED already sunk and taken care of at a lab ("lab") so no need for digitizing or a deck yet. Eventually we'll make HDCAMs but we're not there yet. Just DVDs so far.

I'm getting a new Kona card, will let you know if it was a hardware thing or what once we get to the bottom of it.

abbi


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Abbi Jutkowitz
Re: Final Cut Pro Sync Problems
on Mar 30, 2010 at 12:20:53 am

Hello,

I'm still having sync issues with my plasma monitor after replacing the Kona LHi card, so I thought I'd try posting again with some more info...if anyone has any ideas please let me know!

In order to not get the FCP message that says my sequence is not matching my clips, I have to use the AJA Kona LHi 1080psf 23.98 setting. But, I can't get an image on the plasma unless I playback as
1080p or 1080i. This is weird that they dont match, right? And I always thought p = psf, ie progressive is by its nature segmented frames, isnt it?

Here's my situation in more detail:

Playback to Editor's plasma monitor is and has always been out of sync My system, which is just an iMac, is fine. Editor's FCP Canvas monitor is fine. Every manual everywhere says that CLIP settings have to match SEQUENCE settings which have to match PLAYBACK settings. BUT, the plasma has never displayed an image when FCP Playback setting matches the Sequence setting, I only get an image at different playback settings, and they are out of sync.

Sequence setting to match the clips:
AJA Kona LHi 1080psf 23.98 Apple
ProRes 422 (Proxy)

Playback setting info:
AJA Kona LHi 1080psf 23.98 Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) - no image, nothing on plasma, even though this matches seq setting

AJA Kona LHi 1080p 23.98 Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) - playback drifts out by picture to lagging behind. if I pause the timeline, plasma monitor image "catches up" then starts in sync, then drifts out again.

AJA Kona LHi 1080i 29.97 Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) - playback seems in sync but words look rubbery, like the picture is being pulled up to 29.97 but the sound is not maybe?


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Jeff Nolan
Re: Final Cut Pro Sync Problems
on Apr 2, 2010 at 12:33:07 am

sounds familiar.

i'm having serious sync, lagging and dropped frame issues to Panasonic 65" plasma from a Kona LHi

8 core Mac Pro
12GB Ram
FCP 7, Kona LHi
Lacie 1tb eSata drive

the media i am playing is 1920x1080 ProRES and 23.98fps and unfortunately it's intermittent. i think a restart fixes. but what is going on here?


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Paul Harb
Hey, Im not the only one.
on Apr 5, 2010 at 11:30:10 pm

Im actually on a Kona3 working with Pro Res and the sync is all over. Its a 23.98 Pro Res project. One source of audio from a CD track that has been converted to 48k 24bit. Its in sync, its out...stop...play again back in...then out....total moving target that is maddening to say the least. Nobody seems to know whats going on or how to fix it including AJA.


Paul

Paul Harb-Producer/Director
Wrong Beach Multimedia
Dual 3.2 GHz Quad/10.5.5/8GIG RAM/FCP 6.0.4/QT 7.5.5



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Richard Cooper
Re: Hey, Im not the only one.
on Apr 7, 2010 at 5:38:15 pm

Hey Paul,
I have had these issues as well... sometimes... but not always... I figured out that it was only when I had a blank spot in my video track it would go out of sync, then when I stopped and started again it was back in sync. I fixed this by putting a slug in my video track where I wanted black and this fixed my problem. No more sync issues.

Could this be your issue? Any cuts or fades to black (holes) on your video timeline?

Hope this helps.

Richard Cooper
FrostLine Productions, LLC
Anchorage, Alaska
http://www.frostlineproductions.com


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gary adcock
Re: Hey, Im not the only one.
on Apr 7, 2010 at 6:14:48 pm

[Richard Cooper] " I figured out that it was only when I had a blank spot in my video track it would go out of sync, then when I stopped and started again it was back in sync. I fixed this by putting a slug in my video track where I wanted black and this fixed my problem. "

Hey richard.
That would be a cure for incorrect sampled audio (as should an item level mixdown)

The reason the slugs help is pretty simple, by having some type of video in the timeline it is forcing the rendering engine maintain time sync. The reason is ANY Gaps in the timeline are signaling to the renderer to ignore that open space and jump to the next clip that needs to be rendered- so effectively you are telling the system that it is OK to play the audio out of sync- Make sense?

Additionally Are you using Dual System Sound also or was it recorded directly in camera?

May I suggest something to try?

Turn off the RT engine then drop the clip w/ audio in the timeline (DO NOT let FCP change the settings) if that clip or the audio needs to be rendered it means that it is incorrect for the settings.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Richard Cooper
Re: Hey, Im not the only one.
on Apr 7, 2010 at 6:51:41 pm

Thanks Gary,
That makes perfect sense. It was a project that was brought to us in mid-edit for online edit and color grading and since solving the issue with the slugs I have wrapped up the project and have moved on. But definitely will be prepared for these challenges in the future.

It was however mixed in another studio on ProTools and I now have a stereo mix replacing the the original 8 tracks of audio. So in the interest of learning, I will go back to the project and remove the slugs and see if the issue remains, or is solved, using the stereo mix only in the project. It will be good to know.

Thanks


Richard Cooper
FrostLine Productions, LLC
Anchorage, Alaska
http://www.frostlineproductions.com


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Richard Cooper
Re: Hey, Im not the only one.
on Apr 13, 2010 at 6:57:28 pm

An update... I did the test and removed the slugs from the project and had ONLY the stereo track of audio with the timeline and the sync issue was still there. But hey, if the slugs solve the problem then I am good.
Thanks for the help!

Richard Cooper
FrostLine Productions, LLC
Anchorage, Alaska
http://www.frostlineproductions.com


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Abbi Jutkowitz
Re: Hey, Im not the only one.
on Apr 14, 2010 at 1:55:04 pm

Update from original poster of this thread about being out of sync:

After upping my RAM from 6 gigs to 12 and replacing the Apple RAID card, I am now running in sync. After replacing the RAM I was still out of sync so the RAID card replacement is probably what fixed it, but the extra RAM can't hurt, right?

I read elsewhere on the forums that Apple's RAID card is not great, but we went with it because we needed to use internal RAIDs because of the cost savings for the feature I'm on. Are there other RAID cards that can be used in a Mac Pro that people can suggest for posterity?

thanks,
abbi


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