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Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP

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Simon Green
Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 1, 2009 at 12:37:07 pm

hi there

I am running FCP 7 using the Kona 3 K-box and all of my audio is consistently 3 frames out of sync. I have spent the last 3 months working on an archive show and so I thought it was just the way the files had been encoded and delivered. however, I am now starting a BBC project and another TV series, both shot on XDCAM and I am still having the same problems.

I went through a recent post where someone was having intermittent problems with this, and so I have done a system software update and have just installed the Kona 7.1 drivers, but I am still have the same problem. I don't really know where to look for the answer as the AJA control panel has nothing on it about sync although I have it on 'freerun'. Coincidentally, I have another suite which is identical and it also has the same problem so I don't think it is faulty gear.

Anyhoo, ideas would be very welcome! Also, my audio is coming through the analogue output on the k-box.

Thanks

Simon


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cowcowcowcowcow
walter biscardi
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 1, 2009 at 12:37:56 pm

Final Cut Pro Playback Offset needs to be set to 0. Default is 4.

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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 1, 2009 at 3:56:50 pm

Thank you SO much. I have been going up the wall thinking it was the Kona box! Out of curiosity, why is this there and why is it defaulted to 4 frames offset?

Thanks again!


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 1, 2009 at 5:54:56 pm

[Simon Green] "I have been going up the wall thinking it was the Kona box! Out of curiosity, why is this there and why is it defaulted to 4 frames offset? "

I believe that was a default set by the app in the early FW days and has stayed unchanged in the underlying code within FCP since.

Its been at 4 frames since something like FCP 1.2 or so?

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL


http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 1, 2009 at 6:10:22 pm

Thanks Gary. I wonder why I have never had this problem before - would/could it just be the use of the Kona that creates the problem? Does it have something to do with the fact that my monitor is in sync (well now it is) and FCP on my computer screens is out of sync?

Interesting.....!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 1, 2009 at 7:22:13 pm

Like Gary says, it was originally designed for firewire latency. You could then adjust it so your external monitor and FCP canvas were in sync. With the Kona cards depending if you're doing any conversion, there's virtually no latency. Sometimes, it can be off by a frame if you are down or up-converting, and some flat panel monitors will add even more latency.

Jeremy


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Jason Boucher
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 2, 2009 at 8:12:06 pm

I'm actually in sync playing back DVCPro1080 with a 4 frame offset. I just picked up an FSI 24" panel and have noticed I sync issues. I set it from 0 to 4 frames as a result, but come to think of it, I updated the Kona driver at the same time. Could there be an issue there?

greydogcreative.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 3, 2009 at 4:17:49 pm

[Jason Boucher] "I set it from 0 to 4 frames as a result, but come to think of it, I updated the Kona driver at the same time. Could there be an issue there?"

If it's in sync, there's no issue. When you reset the drivers, it also resets the FCP prefs, so it went from your set 0, to the default 4.


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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 3, 2009 at 6:31:28 pm

Hi there

no it is not the sync in final cut, it is the sync on the external HD monitor (Sony LMD26inch) which is being played through the Kona 3. So basically, what ever is coming out of the Kona is 3 frames out. Any help is desperately needed!

Thanks



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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 3, 2009 at 6:35:39 pm

It basically is not the Playback offset in final cut - that is syncing the 2 pictures on FCP and on the monitor. The issue is that the output entirely is off by a few frames and I am having to nudge the audio out of sync on the timeline (which I shouldnt have to) to get it to lipsync.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 3, 2009 at 6:38:31 pm

OK, SImon, your problem is different than Jason's. Jason, please start a new thread to we can help the OP, who is Simon.

Simon, if you open a file in Quicktime, is it in sync there? Hopefully you have a clap or sync point somewhere in the footage.

Also, are you sure everything is setup properly for your video output?

Jeremy


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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 3, 2009 at 6:48:22 pm

Hi Jeremy,

Yes it is in sync when I play it in finder through quicktime. It is just when I play it in FCP through the Kona 3 when its out of sync by a few frames. Not sure about all my settings, they are pretty new systems so I expected it to be right, but there is obviously something not set up as both suites are identical and both are having the same problems

thanks for your support

Simon




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Jesse Coane
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 4, 2009 at 4:14:55 pm

i noticed this recently with my kona lhi. seems a little intermittent. try a few different easy setups with different frame rates etc then set your external view settings to your seq type. that seemed to snap it back into place.

for example I was working in 720p 23.98 and it was a little out of sync. I used the prores 1080 29.97 easy setup, set my external video back to my seq type and was all good

hope that helps

jesse

Jesse Coane
Director / Editor
The Concept Farm


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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 4, 2009 at 4:24:17 pm

Hi Jesse

Thanks for taking the time to help me. However I don;t think this is the problem. I have changed all my settings, uninstalled and reinstalled the lastest AJA plugins, reset the P-RAM on the MacPro and yet I still have my monitor 2 frames behind Final Cut Pro. I have offset the playback control to 0 frames - so I know what is in FCP is playing the correct file and it is in sync, but for some reason, despite it being mirrored, my monitor is 2 frames behind. V frustrating and it is doing it in both of my suites! Heaven help me (or Creative Cow!)

Thanks

Simon



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 4, 2009 at 5:43:24 pm

Because your monitor must be taking two frames to process whatever it's being given. If you take the sound out of your monitor and run it in to your mixer, I bet everything is in sync.

Jeremy


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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 7, 2009 at 6:38:45 pm

The sync problem WAS the monitor. I have the Sony LMD2451w HD LCD monitor and it was creating a delay, however there was a menu function within the syestem settings which allows for this delay and you can add on by a measurement of 1 or 2. I have had to put it on 2, however, now when I do this it creates a filed dominance issue so when I pause it wobbles between frames. It doesn't do this on setting '1', so I have no idea. DOn't suppose you know a good Sony contact!!?

Thanks

Simon


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 7, 2009 at 6:48:25 pm

[Simon Green] "I have had to put it on 2, however, now when I do this it creates a filed dominance issue so when I pause it wobbles between frames. It doesn't do this on setting '1', so I have no idea."

You can change this (if you want) in the Kona control panel by going to the COdec tab and change the Video Out > Pause on: from full frame to single field. That will stop the wobble. If not, the wobble is ok as it's just showing you both fields of the frame.

Jeremy


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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 7, 2009 at 7:05:31 pm

Thanks Jeremy

This whole situation has been such a nightmare, really appreciate your help! I think I am there now!

Best

Simon


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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 7, 2009 at 7:09:16 pm

Hi Jeremy

I just had another thought - is pausing on a single field rather than a full frame going to be problematic later on - should I be viewing the full frame to make sure it looks correct when it is played out to tape?

Thanks

Simon


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 7, 2009 at 7:14:37 pm

[Simon Green] "is pausing on a single field rather than a full frame going to be problematic later on - should I be viewing the full frame to make sure it looks correct when it is played out to tape?"

It's just there so when you pause playback so it doesn't jitter. Sometimes, that can drive a person nutty so having the option to turn off the jitter is nice and I'm glad AJA gives us the option. It won't do anything different to your video it is simply a personal preference. You have nothing to worry about in terms of laying off to tape as your video won't be paused, it will be playing back.

Jeremy





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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 7, 2009 at 10:51:20 pm

Hi Jeremy

This is true, but sometimes when you have a sequence which contains clips of different field dominance, they can sometimes 'judder' on playback. If I am not monitoring at full frame, surely this might slip through and end up being played out onto tape?

Thanks again

Simon


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57:32 pm

[Simon Green] "If I am not monitoring at full frame, surely this might slip through and end up being played out onto tape?"

You are monitoring full frame, it is only on pause. If you field order issues, you will see it on playback.

Jeremy


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Simon Green
Re: Kona 3 K-Box out of sync with FCP
on Dec 3, 2009 at 3:07:38 pm

Hi Walter, I see what the offset does - it syncs Final Cut with my external monitor so that they are in sync. however, it is my external monitor/kona 3 that is a couple of frames out. Somehow it is pushing it out of sync. Is there something in the Kona 3 output that could cause this?


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