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LHi & DreamColor

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Jim Curtis
LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:12:14 pm

I just installed both in my setup. Both of these have HDMI 1.3 for Deep Color display. The DreamColor monitor only works with it's color profiles when FCP is sending it a progressive RGB signal.

I'm working with some XDCamHD EX footage, that was shot 1080i 29.97. So, the Dreamcolor auto-adjusts to Native display mode (oversaturated chroma), and locks out the 709, sRGB etc. color profiles.

HP suggests using the Gefen HD-SDI to HDMI Scaler Box. Model: EXT-HDSDI-2-HDMIS to convert an interlaced SDI-HD signal to progressive HDMI 1.3. About 1100 bucks.

So, my question: Can HD-SDI utilize Deep Color? If I added the Gefen box, would I be giving up Deep Color just to see a moving picture on the DreamColor?

Or, is there a way to make FCP send a progressive signal to the LHi from the interlaced footage without transcoding all my footage, or rendering my Sequence first? I think I know the answer, but I'm hoping to get schooled by the brain trust here.

Thanks.


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gary adcock
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:26:14 pm

[Jim Curtis] "Both of these have HDMI 1.3 for Deep Color display. The DreamColor monitor only works with it's color profiles when FCP is sending it a progressive RGB signal."


It seems that some of the these displays are only allowed access to the REC709 color space when the signal is as 60p and forcibly reverts to RGB when it thinks it is receiving a signal from a computer.

You can change the rendering intent of the HDMI in the Kona Control Panel, have you tried that?







gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

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Jim Curtis
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:36:09 pm

"You can change the rendering intent of the HDMI in the Kona Control Panel, have you tried that?"

I think so. I have my windows arranged so I can keep an eye on the LHi Control Panel.

No matter what I set the Primary or Frame Buffer to in the Control Panel, as soon as I switch to FCP, the LHi Control Panel changes to my Sequence Settings in FCP.

I also tried setting my Sequence to Field Dominance: None, hoping to fool the LHi, but I guess it's smarter than I am.

MacPro (Harpertown - Early 2008) 2x4 3GHz; 32G RAM all the same brand; 10.5.6; QT 7.5.5; FCS2 / FCP 6.0.5; Kona LHi in PCI slot 3; HP LP2480zx DreamColor display


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gary adcock
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:50:44 pm

[Jim Curtis] "I think so. I have my windows arranged so I can keep an eye on the LHi Control Panel. No matter what I set the Primary or Frame Buffer to in the Control Panel, as soon as I switch to FCP, the LHi Control Panel changes to my Sequence Settings in FCP. "


Ummm No.

There should be a TAB called "HDMI" that allows access to the HDMI settings I am referring to , I am not talking about the signal type.

this is from the IoHD, I am not near a machine with an LHI, but the basic control panel is the same for all AJA products.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Check out
http://www.aja.com/kiprotour/

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Jim Curtis
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 10, 2009 at 11:56:16 pm

OK, I'm getting somewhere now. I monkeyed with the LHi Control Panel, and changed the HDMI Output to RGB 10bit; Output Video Range to SMPTE Range.

My CP looks slightly different from the one you posted, Gary. Thanks for that. A picture is indeed worth a thousand words.

I changed FCP View to 1080p59.94 a 10 bit (1920 x 1080), and lo and behold, my monitor switched to the mode that allows me to set the color space, and looks like a proper video image. This is progress.

The only issue now is that the playback is a bit jerky, and I'm seeing fields. But, maybe if I try some other settings, I'll get the playback to smooth out.

I didn't know about the option key function, Jeremy. Thanks for the tip. I'll look into it.

Thanks for the replies.

MacPro (Harpertown - Early 2008) 2x4 3GHz; 32G RAM all the same brand; 10.5.6; QT 7.5.5; FCS2 / FCP 6.0.5; Kona LHi in PCI slot 3; HP LP2480zx DreamColor display


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Geoff Schaaf
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 3, 2010 at 11:14:40 pm

Hi Jim, I seem to have a very similar setup. I still can't get my Dreamcolor to unlock the color space menu. The footage I'm working with is XDCAM EX shot at 23.97 1080p. Any thoughts?

Geoff Schaaf
Viral Video Inc.

Best, Geoff Schaaf


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Jim Curtis
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 3, 2010 at 11:30:20 pm

Hi Geoff,

What you need is an AJA HDP2 Mini-Converter and a DVI-to-HDMI cable.

Go out of your LHi via HD-SDI to the HDP2, and from there, DVI to the HDMI in your DreamColor.

Remember that the DreamColor only displays Deep Color, 709/601 in 60p mode. So, the HDP2 will take care of that, and convert your 24p or whatever other frame rate to 60p for display.

These are my settings for the HDP2:

Video Format: 444 RGB
Deep Color: On
Color Range: SMPTE
Scaling: Scale
SD Format: Anamorphic
Output Format: 1080p - 60/59.94
HDMI/DVI: HDMI

I get simultaneous downconvert to NTSC with my setup, which I find valuable when color-correcting.

Best,
Jim

Jim Curtis
jamesphilipcurtis.com


MacPro (Harpertown-Early 2008) 2x4 3GHz; 32G RAM all the same brand; Dual Boot: 10.6.3 & 10.5.8; QT 7.6.6; FCS3; Kona LHi in PCI slot 3 (7.5.1); Primary display: 30" ACD; Secondary: HP LP2480zx DreamColor (A) via AJA HDP2 SDI to HDMI converter and (B) DVI from MacPro.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 4, 2010 at 12:22:37 am

The Dreamcolor engine will run at 48Hz and 50Hz as well.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 4, 2010 at 2:08:12 am

[Geoff Schaaf] " The footage I'm working with is XDCAM EX shot at 23.97 1080p. Any thoughts? "

Please tell exactly how it's hooked up.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:54:16 pm

You can change the output in the 'View' menu and make sure to have a look at the 'HDMI' tab of the Koan Control panel. You can change the Kona control panel while in FCP by holding the option button and making adjustments to the control panel. Hope that makes sense.

Jeremy


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Bob Zelin
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 10, 2009 at 11:07:55 pm

At NAB 2009, HP demonstrated the Dreamcolor with an AVID Nitris DX, but using the Gefen Box. In threads I have seen on AVID lists, everyone says that you have to use the Gefen converter. Add this to the 2 grand for the Dreamcolor, and it's no "deal". But for an HP Z800 doing graphics, I guess it's a teriffic monitor.

bob Zelin




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Jeff Bernstein
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 11, 2009 at 6:49:33 am

In fact, you MUST send the Dreamcolor an RGB signal, as everyone has said so far. In addition, you also MUST send it a Progressive signal. It doesn't even like a PsF signal. In fact, it is spelled out in this document... http://tinyurl.com/dreamcolorVID

After you get through all the misleading BS in the top of the document, they sprinkle in all the things you can't do and how you shouldn't do x, y, and z.

As Bob has pointed out, you really need the Gefen box as its converter box. Otherwise, check out FSI monitors.

Granted, on paper, the Dreamcolor looks like a great monitor. BUT, it was designed to be connected to a RGB graphics card for 3D application. Yes, the allure of a LED-backlit monitor is very sexy until you have to deal with a video/YUV workflow with multiple resolutions and formats.



Jeff Bernstein

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Bob Zelin
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 11, 2009 at 1:38:25 pm

As Jeff said, (and as Walter will probably chime in) -

"Otherwise, check out FSI monitors"


Bob Zelin






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walter biscardi
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 11, 2009 at 1:48:24 pm

[Bob Zelin] "As Jeff said, (and as Walter will probably chime in) -

"Otherwise, check out FSI monitors" "


Yep. DreamColor from everything I can see and read is more about graphics and animation work, not true video production, especially if it can't accept an interlaced signal. I've never tested one out, nor do I have a desire to. We need a fully functional broadcast monitor that accepts all formats right out of the box, not just specific formats the particular monitor was designed to work with.

FSI's definitely fit the bill of functional, fully accurate broadcast and film color grade monitor without breaking the bank.



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Jim Curtis
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 11, 2009 at 1:50:36 pm

All the problems I reported here seem to have been fixed at this point. I'm getting smooth playback from my 1080i material, and viewing in 709. So, no need for the Gefen box with this footage. I'm not planning on using the DreamColor for NTSC, so I wouldn't need the box for that.

I did find the Gefen on-line for as low as $1109, so even if you add that to the equation, this monitor costs around $2K less than the Grade-1 FSI. Only about 5% of my work is color-grading; I mostly do editing, motion graphics, sound design/mixing, and DVD authoring in my home office.

I'd like to see it up against the FSI. My previous HD monitoring rig was the MXO and 23" Apple Cinema Display, and the LHi with the DreamColor is more responsive to edit with, the picture looks much nicer, and my system freaks out less when switching applications. The only negative at this point is that the LHi card seems to be causing FCP to crash fairly often (say once an hour). I save often.

MacPro (Harpertown - Early 2008) 2x4 3GHz; 32G RAM all the same brand; 10.5.6; QT 7.5.5; FCS2 / FCP 6.0.5; Kona LHi in PCI slot 3; Primary display: 30" ACD; Secondary: HP LP2480zx DreamColor via HDMI to LHi and DVI to MacPro.


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gary adcock
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Aug 11, 2009 at 9:25:01 pm

[Jim Curtis] "All the problems I reported here seem to have been fixed at this point. I'm getting smooth playback from my 1080i material, and viewing in 709. So, no need for the Gefen box with this footage. I'm not planning on using the DreamColor for NTSC, so I wouldn't need the box for that. "


Jim,

Glad my setting advice worked for you too. I ran into this issue prior to NAB and never got around to sharing it.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflow for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, IL





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harrison Schaaf
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 16, 2010 at 1:55:08 am

Ok so backing up for a second here -

I too am running a KONA LHi-RO with a Mac Pro, and using HDMI to send signal to my HP Dreamcolor monitor. I'm working in FCP 6.0.6, and I want to use the monitor as my main video display in Rec.709, and view 1080p XDCAM footage at 23.98. I am currently using the LHi NDD driver from the AJA website.

Has anybody successfully done this?

At this point I am not even sure if I am running the correct driver...disclaimer, I didn't put this package of equipment together, I'm just the poor sap tasked with making it all work...can it be done?

I download the drivers, get the monitor up and running, but I can see that the image is stretched and the correct color space is grayed out when I try to select it on the monitor, and of course I try to rectify this by selecting what seem to be the right options in the AJA control panel and FCP preferences, and then I just get nothing and have to start all over again.

Is there a crucial step that I missed? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated

H




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 16, 2010 at 5:32:15 am

[harrison Schaaf] "Is there a crucial step that I missed? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated "

Did you uninstall the drivers first beofre downloading and installing the new ones?

Did you also update the firmware with the AJA Kona Updater (found in Applcations > AJA Utilities)?

Your Kona needs to be in true p mode, not psf. So quit FCP, open the control panel and choose the 'Setup' tab. Make sure the 23.98 (et al) box is checked and also the 1080 progressive box is checked.

Then, open FCP and choose the 23.98p easy setup that matches your footage. Problem is, I'm not sure if there's a 23.98p HDV setting. i can check in the morning. If not, you can always edit in a ProRes timeline and use the 1080p 23.98 ProRes easy setup (control-q).

Jeremy


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gary adcock
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 16, 2010 at 1:02:27 pm

[harrison Schaaf] "Is there a crucial step that I missed? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated "

Uh, yeah.

The part that you are required to send the monitor an RGB signal over HDMI- the Dreamcolor THEN converts that signal into Y'Cb'Cr in the Rec709 color space.


You really need to follow Jeremy's article here on the cow.



gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Technology Development
Quality Assurance Assistance

Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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harrison Schaaf
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 16, 2010 at 3:37:30 pm

jeremy, thanks for the proRes tip, i'll give that a shot after i get home today.

gary, i agree with you. could you provide a link to that article? i've been hearing about it but haven't been able to dig it up.

thanks again,

h


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 16, 2010 at 4:16:06 pm

[harrison Schaaf] "could you provide a link to that article?"

Here you go:

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/garchow_jeremy/HP_DreamColor_CRT_Re...

Jeremy


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gary adcock
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 16, 2010 at 5:41:11 pm

[harrison Schaaf] "gary, i agree with you. could you provide a link to that article?"

JG has already taken care of that.



gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Technology Development
Quality Assurance Assistance

Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 16, 2010 at 4:11:44 pm

Here's some screen shots of the how the Kona control panel should be setup. This is from an ioExpress as the LHi is working at the moment, so it might look a little different, but the parameters are exactly the same. Now, Quit FCP. Then...

First, the Setup tab:

setup.png

Then the HDMI tab:



Please note that you can change the Color Space to RGB 8 bit as well.

Then reopen FCP and hit control-q and choose the proper 1080p23.98 XDCam easy setup (I have chosen one of the three that is available on this ioExpress system, it might be different for the LHi):



HTH,

Jeremy


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harrison Schaaf
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 19, 2010 at 1:00:54 am

ok

aja tech support claims that the kona lhi card isn't capable of sending out RGB, only Y'Cb'Cr.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LHi & DreamColor
on Jun 19, 2010 at 2:17:04 am

You can't select RGB on the HDMI out?


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