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What does the psf mean in easy setup (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422)

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Mike Allen
What does the psf mean in easy setup (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422)
on Jun 12, 2009 at 1:09:34 pm

What does the psf in (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422) mean and when do I use it?

My real question is that I have a Sony Z5u that will shoot native 24p (which I assume is 23.98). I have a Kona LHi and will be capturing to ProRes. What ProRes easy setup would work best to capture the native 24p from this camcorder.

Mike


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gary adcock
Re: What does the psf mean in easy setup (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422)
on Jun 12, 2009 at 1:42:08 pm

go to

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/193/875880

I have answered this maybe 5000 times here on the cow.

you might try a wiki search too.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Check out
http://www.aja.com/kiprotour/

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Mike Allen
Re: What does the psf mean in easy setup (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422)
on Jun 12, 2009 at 5:04:19 pm

Gary,

First, thanks for helping. Now I know it means Progressive Segmented Frame and I somewhat understand the principal. Forgive my ignorance, but let me ask you two specific questions. What I would like from you (if you don't mind) is two ProRes 422 easy setup settings and perhaps a little more insight as to the difference between the settings if indeed they are different.

My Z5u will shoot 24p in two ways. One way is native 24p and the other is standard 24p where I think the camera is adding pull down (which I will admit that I am going to read a little more about here shortly) so it can be edited more easily by most systems. Is there a difference in the ProRes setup setting depending on which version of 24p that I am using?

In my corporate job I shoot XDCam HD with a Sony F350 and the settings are very easy to navigate and understand. However, the Z5u is new and because it shoots two different versions of 24p I am a little confused. Also, with XDCam HD I am not using the ProRes codec, so this is my first time figuring it out.

In conclusion, what is the easy ProRes setup for Native 24p to capture from a Z5u and what is the setup for shooting standard 24p (with pulldown added I think).

Thanks for all your help,

Mike




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Mike Allen
Re: What does the psf mean in easy setup (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422)
on Jun 12, 2009 at 5:25:15 pm

I was searching and found where you said that:

"it is my understanding that Avids do NOT support the 1080 true P workflow (ie: RED)
RED is about the only camera most people would ever use that generates a true "P" signal in 1080."

So I think you are going to tell me that the native 24p capture from my Z5u will be [ 1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422 ]

Still not sure what the 24p with pulldown added ProRes setup will be.

Mike




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gary adcock
Re: What does the psf mean in easy setup (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422)
on Jun 12, 2009 at 6:43:46 pm

[Mike Allen] "o I think you are going to tell me that the native 24p capture from my Z5u will be [ 1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422 ]"

Correct
the camera captures progressive signals but the transport to a display is always as segmented frame (interlace)

[Mike Allen] "you are going to tell me that the native 24p capture from my Z5u will be [ 1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422 ] Still not sure what the 24p with pulldown added ProRes setup will be."

1080 60i.. (or 29.97 in Sony terms)



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Check out
http://www.aja.com/kiprotour/

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Mike Allen
Re: What does the psf mean in easy setup (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422)
on Jun 12, 2009 at 8:18:57 pm

Thanks you for answering. That is all I really needed to know. I will throw one more question at you. I there any advantage to shooting native over the 24p with pulldown as far as the look, quality, or any other relevant info pertaining to the two different flavors of 24p. My Kona and new Mac pro can capture both, and I do like the look I get when shooting 24p with my F350.

I guess one obvious answer to my question is shoot both and find out, I know. But, I trust your opinion and thought I might ask what you think.

Mike



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gary adcock
Re: What does the psf mean in easy setup (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422)
on Jun 12, 2009 at 8:45:17 pm

[Mike Allen] "Is there any advantage to shooting native over the 24p with pulldown as far as the look, quality, or any other relevant info pertaining to the two different flavors of 24p."

actually there is.

because the pulldown is added across fields instead of frames, the 24/60 method ends up with what is called a "mushy C-frame" where every C frame softer that what is expected due to the fact that the Cframe a combination of one of the fields from 2 different frames,



a diagram of how the cadence works

when you shoot interlaced 24p in the Non-Native fashion and then later having extract just the 24 frames shot in camera from output which has had additional frames added to pad the output in the easiest manner possible.

In 720p none of this matters since the frames are always progressive...



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Check out
http://www.aja.com/kiprotour/

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Mike Allen
Re: What does the psf mean in easy setup (1080psf 23.98 ProRes 422)
on Jun 12, 2009 at 9:12:46 pm

Your simple color coded diagram helped me understand what's going on with pulldown and why native is a better way to record 24p. Thank you so much for your help, this is all I wanted to know. I will feel much better about my workflow now when working with my new cameras and the LHi.

Mike



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