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Very, Very simple question

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Mike Allen
Very, Very simple question
on Jun 9, 2009 at 1:50:58 pm

I know this is a very basic question so resist the temptation to hammer me on this. I am using the Kona LHe on one system and on another new system I am using the Kona LHi. In the past, I always had my audio monitors an arms reach away and those monitors (Roland MA-12's) always have had the volume control right on the front. In this configuration I would just use the volume control knobs on the speakers to control volume. However, on my new editing system I ordered KRK RP5G2's and the volume control is on the back and they are much further away. The volume control on the desktop does not seem to adust the volume playing through the kona. Also, if I turn the speakers all of the way down, they are still quite loud. Please instruct me on the way other kona users are controling volume on their systems. Also, is the control different when you are capturing VS playback.

Mike


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Mike Allen
Re: Very, Very simple question
on Jun 9, 2009 at 2:01:41 pm

Ok, just found this old post from Bob Zelin.
"as you realize now, you cannot use the MAC audio output to monitor your audio, you must use the XLR outputs from the Kona to do this.

There are many many solutions to your problem, but the least expensive solution is to get a small Behringer Audio mixer, which will cost you anywhere between $80 - $300 dollars. Remember that the XLR outputs of the Kona must go into the 1/4" TRS inputs of any inexpensive mixer from Behringer, Mackie, Yamaha, soundcraft, etc, so you can't just use XLR mic cables that you have lying around. The Control Room Monitor outputs will be 1/4" TRS outputs as well, so you will need these cables too, to go from the mixer out to your powered speakers."


When I first wired the new system, I simply connected the XLR out to the KRK XLR in. Was this incorrect? I do have a Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro, will it do what I need. Bob mentioned a few things I did not understand.

Remember that the XLR outputs of the Kona must go into the 1/4" TRS inputs of any inexpensive mixer from Behringer, Mackie, Yamaha, soundcraft, etc, so you can't just use XLR mic cables that you have lying around. The Control Room Monitor outputs will be 1/4" TRS outputs as well, so you will need these cables too, to go from the mixer out to your powered speakers.

What is TRS and why do I need to go from XLR type connectors to 1/4?

Can someone please explain this to me?

Mike




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Very, Very simple question
on Jun 9, 2009 at 5:06:41 pm

[Mike Allen] "What is TRS"

Tip Ring Sleeve (or balanced 1/4")

[Mike Allen] "why do I need to go from XLR type connectors to 1/4? "

Becuase on a lot of mixers, the XLR inputs are mic level and not line level.


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Mike Allen
Re: Very, Very simple question
on Jun 9, 2009 at 11:17:39 pm

Just to be clear. You are saying the XLR out of Kona to XLR in on KRK speakers in not the correct way run the audio. I guess there is no way to control volume level.

So should I get two XLR to 1/4 cables and hook them from my junction box to the Mackie 1202VLZ Pro. Then, should I come out Main XLR or Main 1/4 inch to the KRK speakers, I suspect 1/4 out but not sure. I should be able to get these cables at a local music store correct?

Mike



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Bob Zelin
Re: Very, Very simple question
on Jun 10, 2009 at 3:04:58 am

Mike -
I will give you two responses. A nice one if you are young, and a mean angry one if you are old. First the nice one, if you are a new editor, and are confused. Then the mean angry one if you are an older editor (which I suspect because you have Roland MA-12 speakers, which are the speakers AVID supplied with their systems) -


Mike writes -
You are saying the XLR out of Kona to XLR in on KRK speakers in not the correct way run the audio. I guess there is no way to control volume level.

REPLY - the Roland MA12 was chosen by Eric Peters of AVID because it was an inexpensive speaker that was part of a turnkey AVID system, for offline editing. The MA12 was an "instrument" or microphone speaker, and even this product was used with an in line transformer to drop the level from the AVID XLR output. The MA12 was discontinued, but newer versions of this speaker came out for less money, like the Roland MA8, or Behringer MS16 (same product) with volume controls on the front. Better quality speakers (like your KRK's or modern powered speakers from Tannoy, Mackie, Behringer, Genelec, Yamaha and others - do not have easy access to the volume controls, as most people use a mixer, or volume knob (like the Mackie Big Knob) to control the volume. Only lesser quality products (like the MA12) have volume knobs like you were using on the Rolands.

YOU WRITE -
So should I get two XLR to 1/4 cables and hook them from my junction box to the Mackie 1202VLZ Pro. Then, should I come out Main XLR or Main 1/4 inch to the KRK speakers, I suspect 1/4 out but not sure. I should be able to get these cables at a local music store correct?

REPLY - AJA XLR Out 1 to Mackie 1202 Line IN 1. This is a Female XLR cable to male tip ring sleve balanced 1/4" cable. You will need another one for channel 2. THEN, you take the 1/4" TRS Control Room Monitor outputs of your Mackie, and go into the XLR input of your KRK powered speaker. Of course, you will need two of these cables - 1/4" to Male XLR.

So your shopping list is two female XLR to 1/4" TRS cables, and two male XLR to 1/4" TRS cables.

Now for the mean, angry response.
When AVID released the original Media Composer, it was a self contained package. They wanted it to be a nice, simple self contained system, where they provided everything, including the AC power strips, all cabling, and Roland MA12C speakers. The only thing the customer had to provide was two Sony 3/4" VTR's and a TV monitor. The original system had the audio come out of the Digidesign Audio Interface box XLR output (which even back then was a hot +4dBm signal), that needed to go thru an in line transformer pad, to go into the 1/4" UNBALANCED input of the Roland MA12 speakers, so it would not distort or be too loud.

This was totally unacceptable to me. There were LOTS of sources that needed to be input into the AVID (expecially in those days, when SDI and serial digital embedded audio did not exist). There were lots of audio signals that needed to be monitored (like all the VTR's in addition to the AVID). But this is not what AVID wanted. So you know what I did ? I found the original Mackie mixer, chopped up all the AVID supplied cables, and installed audio mixers on ALL the AVID systems in NY, which was the original market for AVID. So EVERY AVID had a mixer,with none of those stupid in line transformers to pad down the signal to the speakers. This was the right thing to do, and became a standard throughout the editing industry. You NEVER listen to the direct output of an AVID into speakers - you ALWAYS monitor thru a device that can attenuate or amplify the signal, without having to touch the actual speaker volume. This is the way it was in the linear video days, and this is the way I had it continue in the original AVID days. If you were editing with your AVID listening to your AVID direct output into your Roland MA12C speakers, you were doing it WRONG. AVID was wrong. Their "off line" solution did not apply to complex editorial rooms that had multiple sources. And I bet even today, you have multiple sources (like the audio output of your MAC, your VTR, a scratch microphone, etc.) Use the mixer, dont' monitor directly off of your AJA product. You have a Mackie 1202 - use it.

Bob Zelin




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Earle Nichol
Re: Very, Very simple question
on Jun 10, 2009 at 4:48:39 am

Your awesome Bob! I wish I could have seen the chopping session of the AVID Cables!

Earle

Communication, Communication, Communication!!!
http://www.whiteiron.tv/demo


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Grant Harvey
Re: Very, Very simple question
on Jun 25, 2009 at 5:48:07 pm

What is the best way to introduce a mic to this setup? Specifically, I want to patch a mic into XLR Line 1 of the Mackie for voice over.. (I currently have Ch 1/2 analog Line Outs from the Kona going into Line 5/6 on the Mackie; CR outs going from Mackie to powered monitors). Not sure if I should patch the Mackie XLR main outs to the analog in on the KL box..


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Very, Very simple question
on Jul 6, 2009 at 7:44:32 pm

Is the master Mackie out going to the KOna in?


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maurice jansen
Re: Very, Very simple question
on Jul 6, 2009 at 8:00:53 pm

one thing

DON"T PUT CHEAP $%#SS mixers in your recording/ ingest path.
in a monitor only situation get your self a behringer/mackie 4 0r 8 fader thingie.
when you want to have control of your recording / ingest/voice over levels get your self a decent mixer.
we use a good old STUDER 962 with a decent control room monitor section. simple but good all XLRin's and out's

greet
Maurice


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Grant Harvey
Re: Very, Very simple question
on Nov 30, 2009 at 8:55:28 pm

Jeremy,

Thanks for your reply to this; my question didn't post for while because at the time I had only been a member since June.. so I didn't see my post.. Anyway, no, I ended up with a jerky little workaround, main outs from the Mackie going to an Griffin iMic setup with the Mackie Alt outputs L/3 and R/4 feeding the monitors.. works fine but I know it's not right.. I think I was worried about a feedback loop if I sent the main XLR outs from the Mackie back int the Kona analog ins.

Grant Harvey
Scherzi Studios


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