FORUMS: list search recent posts

AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex

COW Forums : AJA Video Systems

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Akbar Ukani
AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 2, 2009 at 1:02:24 am

Hi all...I am just looking for some clarification regarding the Kona LHI and Native XDcam footage...I asked an AJA rep whether the LHI card can assist me in monitoring NATIVE XDcam footage from my FCP timeline and here is the answer I recieved...and I quote

"All AJA cards accept UNCOMPRESSED video only and output the same. When working in the XDCam codec with FCP I am not aware of there being any complaints about dropped frames. There are, of course some important settings you need set but beyond that all should work well in your system"

Basically, I am looking for a solution where I can color grade and monitor native xdcam ex footage (weddings and corporate events)...I would like the option to ingest footage also just incase I wish to work with 4:2:2 footage instead of 4:2:0....

I went with the MXO2 and I constantly kept getting dropped frames with native 720p60 footage during playback on my Plasma HDTV....It would eventually hog up all 8Gb of my memory making my CPU really slow...I would have only about 200-250Mb of free RAM. Matrox Tech support cannot come to a solution so I had to RMA the product

any suggestions or solutions with AJA that help me?

Akbar

Mac Pro 2 x 2.66Ghz
8Gb RAM
10.5.9
FCP 6.0.5
2 non-raid Hitachi SATA II drives for Audio Video


Return to posts index

Arnie Schlissel
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 2, 2009 at 1:52:15 am

[Akbar Ukani] "I went with the MXO2 and I constantly kept getting dropped frames with native 720p60 footage during playback on my Plasma HDTV"

Dropped frames have absolutely nothing, nada, zilch, to do with your capture card. Dropped frames are completely, 100% the result of your drives not being able to play the material back fast enough. Get a decent drive system and you will not have dropped frames.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


Return to posts index

Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 2, 2009 at 4:00:07 am

I understand that; however I am not a 100% convinced that it could be the hard drives because the same footage plays fine if I am not monitoring it on the plasma hdtv. In addition, if it were the drives then it really shouldn't affect my computer RAM to the point where it becomes sluggish all over where it would require a complete reboot

In addition, the hard drives I have are hitachi deskstar 7200 rpm and they are nowhere near full.

Can you please explain? and if possible address my initial question about Kona LHI and XDCam EX? Thank you for your help


Return to posts index


Jeremy Garchow
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 2, 2009 at 2:09:02 pm

[Arnie Schlissel] "Dropped frames have absolutely nothing, nada, zilch, to do with your capture card. Dropped frames are completely, 100% the result of your drives not being able to play the material back fast enough. Get a decent drive system and you will not have dropped frames."

I have to disagree here. WHile yes, that is mostly true, if your capture card can't buffer the video fast enough due to having to process/decompress/transcode the video in real time, you might get dropped frames. If your capture card is in the incorrect output format that does not match your timeline, you can get dropped frames. While disk speed has a lot to do with it, it's not 100% the reason for dropped frames.


Return to posts index

gary adcock
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 2, 2009 at 12:52:57 pm

[Akbar Ukani] "I asked an AJA rep whether the LHI card can assist me in monitoring NATIVE XDcam footage from my FCP timeline and here is the answer I recieved...and I quote"

Akbar.
Unless I am mistaken, that was not an AJA rep, but a sales person from a dealer. None of the Aja Reps I know would answer that way. ( May I ask where this question was asked?)


The Answer... ""All AJA cards accept UNCOMPRESSED video only and output the same. When working in the XDCam codec with FCP I am not aware of there being any complaints about dropped frames."

is partially correct- Aja does output uncompressed video from all of its products. but card based tools from AJA offer you the full power of the desktop without sacrifice. YES with a Kona LH card your Xdcam footage can be handled to the full power of your computer.

Please note that dropped video frames are an issue with Drives/ storage not being fast enough.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Check out
http://www.aja.com/kiprotour/

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




Return to posts index

Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 2, 2009 at 2:48:07 pm

Hey Gary,

I appreciate you taking the time to clarify things for me. I eventually called AJA tech support; however I was transferred to some voice mail. Thereafter, I decided to use their support system via the website. I got the response via the support system.

As far as the dropped frames, I would think that the matrox mxo2 which I had purchased (now going back) should playback video on my plasma tv without any problems considering the following settings

1. Dedicated Video Hard Drive for A/V only (hitachi deskstar 7200rpm SATAII)
2. Mac Pro 2.66Ghz x 2 with 8Gb of RAM
3. Sequence settings: XDCam 720p60 VBR 35Mbits/sec
4. RT Settings: Dynamic
5. Video Playback Output Setting in FCP: Matrox MXO2 720p59.94 YUV 10-Bit 1280x720
6. Mirror on Desktop Turned OFF

Any suggestions as to why I was getting dropped frames constantly. Also, in all instances with the dropped frames, I would notice that I would only have about 200-250mb of RAM free. I would have to reboot the machine and the problem would go away until I started monitoring footage again via FCP




Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 2, 2009 at 8:37:35 pm

Whenever you send a signal out thru a video card to a monitor, it takes a tad more system resources. Be it the MXO2 or Kona 3...you can have dropped frames while playing back thru the card, but not when the card is off. This is ESPECIALLY true with the GOP formats like HDV and XDCAM. They take a lot of system resources as it is.

I had the same issue when working with HDV on my Kona 3. But then I captured everything as ProRes and the issue went away.

The solution? Faster drives...as mentioned...and get out of the GOP format. Working NATIVE XDCAM is overrated, especially given the workflow you will have of delivering a DVD.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 3, 2009 at 1:00:54 am

When you put it this way then shoot it makes sense...I never tried converting the clips to ProRes to see what would happen...I guess I got way too caught up with the fact that it might be something wrong with the I/O box...besides Matrox says it on their website that you would be able to monitor native xdcam footage without dropped frames...I guess as a consumer I am not entitled to hold Matrox for everything they say about their product =)...j/k but thank you for your insight..I have already shipped the MXO2 back to B&H and I have decided to go with AJA being that it is so popular

BTW...as far as faster drives, the only option I can think of is to have a hardware raid controller on my mac....Therefore, with AJA LHI using PCI-Express slot 3 (x4) can you recommend any hardware raid controllers that would utilize the PCI-Express Slot 4 (x4)?


Return to posts index

Arnie Schlissel
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 3, 2009 at 2:45:52 am

[Akbar Ukani] "BTW...as far as faster drives, the only option I can think of is to have a hardware raid controller on my mac...."

Either an Areca 1600 series card, or an Atto R380 series card. Both are SAS controllers with hardware RAID right on the card. They will outperform most other host cards for direct attached storage.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


Return to posts index


Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 3, 2009 at 3:54:35 pm

I checked out the cards that you mentioned and they all seem to be x8 PCI Express...I have a Mac Pro where can I only have the following configuration for my PCI Express Slots

slot 4 (x4) - ????
slot 3 (x4) - will need it for the AJA Kona LHI
slot 2 (x1) - leaving it open for Matrox Compress HD
slot 1 (x16) - occupied by the graphics card


Do you know of any hardware raid controllers that can utilize slot 4 in my mac pro? Thank You


Return to posts index

Mike Allen
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 12, 2009 at 8:55:04 pm

What to you mean by this statement?

"Working NATIVE XDCAM is overrated, especially given the workflow you will have of delivering a DVD."

What is difficult about "delivering a DVD" from XDCAM?

Mike




Return to posts index

Keith Pratt
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 2, 2009 at 11:14:14 pm

Can't FCP only address 4GB of RAM? What other software do you have running?


Return to posts index


Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 3, 2009 at 1:05:05 am

You are right, FCP can only utilize upto 4GB of RAM, but I kid you not when I looked at the activity monitor on my mac pro, it showed i had approximately 200-250mb of Free Memory and almost 60%-70% of the total memory was "wired" (atleast thats what the pie chart showed)...I can't recall the exact figure...the rest of it was either "active" or "inactive"


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 3, 2009 at 8:31:50 pm

Akbar,
maybe I missed something here, but can you please tell me
EXACTLY what disk drive array you are using, and EXACTLY what drives you are using ? ARe you using a firewire 800 drive ? Are you using a single internal SATA drive? Are you using a few internal SATA drives that are stripped together ? ARe you using an external array box from G-Tech, Lacie, Cal Digit or others ?

Although this is an AJA forum, and the AJA is a wonderful product, there was probably nothing wrong with your Matrox. And you will become more frustrated when you install the Kona LHi, and you get the same errors. PLEASE tell me EXACTLY what drives you are using, and how they are configured (raid 0, no raid, firewire drives on the same buss as the Matrox), etc.

Bob Zelin




Return to posts index

Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 3, 2009 at 9:07:03 pm

Hey Bob,

I was using the internal SATA drives which were not configured in any particular raid. The application is installed on the boot drive with Mac OS X of course and the other 3 drives are configured individually. They primarily contain all my video and audio files. I don't do any ProRes yet...it was just a basic native XDCam 720p60 35Mbits/sec footage.

The 3 drives I have are Hitachi Deskstar 7200 RPM SATA II with 16mb Buffer...

I figured it shouldn't be a problem since i am editing native XDCam footage? Thanks for your insights


Return to posts index


Bob Zelin
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 4, 2009 at 12:54:05 am

please download and run AJA System Test (it's free) on your internal sata drives. You are using individual SATA drives. You should get about 70Mb/sec on each drive. It's tough getting SUSTAINED playback with any single drive, but for XDCam EX, it should work. Just for fun (a test), please go into FCP, and change the EASY SETUP to record at ProRes422 (not HQ), and DVCProHD - JUST TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

If you are getting readings from AJA System Test that are about 65 - 70Mb/sec or better, your drives are ok. If you are getting 30 - 40Mb/sec or slower, something is wrong with your drives.

Bob Zelin




Return to posts index

Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 4, 2009 at 5:43:11 pm

Hey Bob,

You are right...I tested the AJA application on my drives and the first 2 drives where I normally store my Video/Audio files for editing gave a reading average of just above 35MB/s. The third drive where I normally store my graphics gave a reading average of 55MB/s. I tried various frame sizes. Crap now I have to invest in a hard drives also in addition to the Kona Card and a x4 RAID Controller....btw can you recommend any good hardware RAID controllers that I can utilize in my x4 PCI-Express slot. Thank you


Return to posts index

Alan Okey
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 4, 2009 at 7:11:54 pm

Check out the CalDigit RAID card. Whatever you do, DO NOT buy the Apple RAID card - it's a dog, and it's overpriced.

http://www.CalDigit.com/RAIDCard/

Please note that the external ports on the CalDigit RAID card can only be used with CalDigit's HDElement RAIDs.


Return to posts index


Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 4, 2009 at 9:21:02 pm

Yeah I did check out the Caldigit RAID card. No doubt they are awesome, but I am just not a big fan of a card which limits me to their enclosures only. They cost an arm and a leg and with that money I can buy another mac....


Return to posts index

Alan Okey
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 4, 2009 at 9:54:51 pm

[Akbar Ukani] "Yeah I did check out the Caldigit RAID card. No doubt they are awesome, but I am just not a big fan of a card which limits me to their enclosures only."

Just to be clear - you do realize that the CalDigit RAID card can use the 4 internal drives in the Mac Pro, right? Plus, the card includes a kit to mount a fifth drive in the second optical bay of the Mac Pro. If you don't use Boot Camp, you can set up your system drive in the second optical bay and use up to four of the original hard drive drive bays for hardware RAID. You don't even need to use an external enclosure.

I set up a system exactly like this for a client. He has a boot/system drive in the second optical bay and then four 1TB Hitachi SATA drives set up in RAID 5 with the CalDigit card. He's quite happy with the results, and he didn't have to spend a lot.

The CalDigit RAID card sells for about $550.00. You can't buy another Mac for that little.


Return to posts index

Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 4, 2009 at 11:45:45 pm

I see what you are saying and it makes perfect sense; however I prefer not to use the main drive as part of the RAID and I have installed a blu-RAY burner in my second optical bay slot which leaves me only the 3 HD bays available.

Also, I am aware that the Caldigit RAID card supports internal drives; however if I wish to expand the drives I am limited to buying the Caldigit RAID Solutions which do cost an arm and a leg. I am sure there are other RAID cards which support both internal and external drives. I can buy an enclosure myself and additonal drives and save a good $1000-$1500 instead of going the Caldigit way




Return to posts index

Christopher S. Johnson
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 5, 2009 at 1:56:44 am

Honestly, guys, I'm having excellent success by just throwing two bare drives into the MacPro and striping them together with Apple's Disk Utility. I'm easily getting between 150/s on the lowest end (when drives are getting full) to 180MB/s on a normal day. Super cheap. Super easy. Cuts through anything but uncompressed HD like butter. I'm doing 1080p ProRes HQ without a single complaint.

No fuss, no muss.



Return to posts index

Akbar Ukani
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 5, 2009 at 3:09:29 pm

LOL..as much sense as your post makes..I am one of those guys who just like to make things complicated =), but eventually thats what I am going to have to do...just utilize the software RAID functionality provided by Leopard in my Mac Pro and save a little bit of money to invest in the AJA card....Thank You


Return to posts index

Dave Jenkins
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 6, 2009 at 4:04:57 am

I use the internal slots with 3 drives striped raid 0 and get around 200mb per second. We edit EXCAM HD & EX footage with the AJA Lhe and it works fine. You won't get a lot of realtime once you start adding layers, effects and Motion files but it will playback EX files just fine.

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro Two 2.8GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe
FCP 6.0.4 OS X 10.5.5 QT 7.5.5


Return to posts index

Mike Allen
Re: AJA Kona LHI & Native XDCAM Ex
on Jun 12, 2009 at 9:26:51 pm

I agree with Christopher. I am getting over 180 mb/s with two internal drives striped together. I have edited a few projects with the ProRes 422 codec with no problem. I also have a caldigit 8 drive HD one and I am shure that many with tell you a hardware raid is much better, however if you are on a budget and want fast drives with wiill work with most codecs short of uncompressed, strip your internal drives and problem solved for free99. I do concur with Christopher

Mike



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]