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paul Provost
pulldown removal
on Feb 12, 2009 at 5:43:41 pm

I have a client asking us to digitize footage from PAL digibeta. he is asking for "pulldown removal of footage resulting in 25fps progressive". this makes no sense to me. what am I missing?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 12, 2009 at 8:59:27 pm

They shot 720p25 over 50 (and not digibeta like they said. It happens.)

Or said client is confusing terms and maybe they mean deinterlace?

Riddles.

Jeremy


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paul Provost
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 12, 2009 at 9:32:39 pm

Well, I just talked to the client and he says on high end systems (like flame, etc.) everything is brought in progressive, w/out pulldown and that is all added back during output. I was not aware of this and see no way to do it FCP/Kona3. anyone? Buhler?

"HE'S SUCH A GIRL" HD feature film
grade and finish @ post + beam
http://www.hessuchagirl.com
http://www.postandbeam.tv


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 12, 2009 at 9:47:48 pm

OK. Is this client an editor, or is (s)he a producer type?

What is the source of the footage? I know you said digibeta, but is that what it was shot on?




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paul Provost
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 12, 2009 at 9:55:04 pm

commercial director who is finishing director cut himself in after effects and wants progressive for the speed changes. 35mm film on PAL digibeta.

"HE'S SUCH A GIRL" HD feature film
grade and finish @ post + beam
http://www.hessuchagirl.com
http://www.postandbeam.tv


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 12, 2009 at 10:25:30 pm

There you go. Assuming the film was shot @ 24p:

Then most likely it's 24@25 and the footage was simply sped up when doing the transfer. IF there is pulldown it could be 24&1 which adds a couple of extra fields to the video per second. If that's the case I'd have no idea how to remove that. You'd have to ask the transfer house or capture a bit of the footage and check it out.

Jeremy


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gary adcock
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 13, 2009 at 2:31:17 pm

[paul Provost] "Well, I just talked to the client and he says on high end systems (like flame, etc.) everything is brought in progressive, w/out pulldown and that is all added back during output."

Not from an SD tape..
With an HD or film finish that statement about Progressive vs interlace would be correct, but the conversions from 24 <>25 are NEVER done with pulldown, not anywhere the PAL world that I know of.

That being said it would be depending on how your SD was laid off. If the content was sent direct from the telecine to Dbeta my guess would be it was converted on the fly at that point, so capturing the SD content as 25p should world- you have to remember that the Output format will always be 50i. (or correctly as 25PsF)

The traditional workflow path is to re-conform the content from one frame rate to the other. I know of no highend systems that use pulldown for the 24 > 25 conversions- None- and certainly not on a Flame as you mention.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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paul Provost
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 13, 2009 at 3:38:35 pm

thanks for the input Jeremy & Gary.
just so I understand - does the flame, IQ, etc digitize the footage from tape as a progressive image sequence? I seem to remember autodesk giving us a sales pitch that it comes in as rgb 444 tiffs from whatever source and then you output whatever frame size and rate you want.

this is just weird coincidence for us as we always ingest as QT native SD or HD or PAL or NTSC (always 10bit) and yesterday we had two of our major clients out of the blue insisting that we ingest progressive image sequences for them to work in AE....

"HE'S SUCH A GIRL" HD feature film
grade and finish @ post + beam
http://www.hessuchagirl.com
http://www.postandbeam.tv


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 13, 2009 at 3:48:04 pm

If it's an image sequence you need, you can use AJA VTR Exchange to capture an image sequence.

Jeremy


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gary adcock
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 13, 2009 at 3:48:44 pm

[paul Provost] "does the flame, IQ, etc digitize the footage from tape as a progressive image sequence?"

That would depend on how the tape was shot/ captured and what the workflow is for the final project.
The systems you refer to here were designed specifically to work on frame sequences ( DPX or Targa) or with uncompressed video streams at the highest level for their output.

"as we always ingest as QT native SD or HD or PAL or NTSC (always 10bit) "
That would be the nature of working on lesser hardware, and with FCP. The vast majority of finish work on these systems is often handled in the same manner. AE on the other hand does not care the same way FCP does when it comes to file and frame size.

it is a different workflow, the DPX/ Cineon workflow is by far the most widely used frame based workflow in use (though most autodesk products prefer targa files due to the larger number of alpha channels available for use)


gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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paul Provost
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 13, 2009 at 5:31:44 pm

i haven't had much luck using vtr exchange to grab tiffs as explained in the manual (and it even says that you will likely get dropped frames?! - what's the use of that?)
anyone know if the new kona adobe driver/premier cs4 can grab image sequences?)

"HE'S SUCH A GIRL" HD feature film
grade and finish @ post + beam
http://www.hessuchagirl.com
http://www.postandbeam.tv


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 13, 2009 at 5:39:39 pm

Do you need tiffs? You can use 10bit RGB DPX files.

Jeremy


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paul Provost
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 13, 2009 at 6:00:51 pm

10bitrgb dpx would be fine (AE is fine with that right?)
I'll give it another try. vtr ex can read edls now right?

"HE'S SUCH A GIRL" HD feature film
grade and finish @ post + beam
http://www.hessuchagirl.com
http://www.postandbeam.tv


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: pulldown removal
on Feb 13, 2009 at 6:20:09 pm

[paul Provost] "10bitrgb dpx would be fine (AE is fine with that right?) "

Sure. AE doesn't much care what it gets.


[paul Provost] "I'll give it another try. vtr ex can read edls now right?"

From what I understand, although I have never tried it. I think you just drag the EDL on to the capture window and away you go. Make sure to have your capture prefs setup up in advance.

Jeremy


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