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Kona and Magic Bullet Looks

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Bob Pierce
Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 3, 2009 at 9:13:38 pm

Hi Everybody,
I'm using the Magic Bullet Looks plugin with my Kona LHe system. It's worked great until recently I was using it with some NTSC Prores 422 footage, which rendered out with green blockiness all over the image. I called Red Giant support, and they informed me that Magic Bullet does not support the Kona. Magic Bullet is designed to use the computer's GPU for rendering, and doesn't play well with the Kona rendering. They told me that it wasn't worth their time to configure it for AJA or BM cards since 95% of their users use the computer monitor, and don't need a video card. I found that hard to believe!

Anyway, final workaround was to set the sequence setting to uncompressed 8 bit, which rendered fine. I'm wondering if there are any Magic Bullet Looks Kona users out there and what their workarounds are.
Thanks!
Bob

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.2 - Quicktime 7.4.5 -
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.3) - Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 -
Sony Multiformat 14" - Panasonic 42" Plasma -
Ikegami HLDV7 - PVW EX-1



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walter biscardi
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 3, 2009 at 9:34:11 pm

[Bob Pierce] " I called Red Giant support, and they informed me that Magic Bullet does not support the Kona."

They have no clue what they are talking about. The kona has nothing to do with plug-ins. There is nothing to write to support the Kona or the BM cards since they are simply output devices. If you're seeing blockiness, those are bad renders and that is something that Red Giant would have to address.

On the very few occasions we've used Looks here, there have been no issues.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

Read my Blog!

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!


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Bob Pierce
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 3, 2009 at 10:27:58 pm

Maybe I've misunderstood. I thought what he was telling me was that the Kona was handling some of the rendering. Whatever the reason for the problem, he said that the Kona was the issue.
Bob

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.2 - Quicktime 7.4.5 -
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.3) - Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 -
Sony Multiformat 14" - Panasonic 42" Plasma -
Ikegami HLDV7 - PVW EX-1



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 3, 2009 at 10:35:53 pm

Your Kona is still putputting 8bit Uncompressed, so if it's a Kona issue it'd be showing up there too. I'd call this a codec issue and it's MBs fault.

Jeremy


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Bob Pierce
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 3, 2009 at 11:35:17 pm

They told me that the Kona can play the rendered files, but that Magic Bullet can't render with a Kona installed on the computer.

I dropped some non-prores footage into my sequence (DV), applied the same filters (CC and MB), set sequence settings to preset "Aja kona Pro res ntsc 422" and rendered. This clip renders fine with no green blockies. It seems that MB doesn't like it when the original footage is pro res. I've tried DVCPRO HD and XDCAM EX footage in all sorts of rendering situations and I can't replicate the problem - only with the footage captured pro res.

Thanks for your input, guys.
Bob

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.2 - Quicktime 7.4.5 -
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.3) - Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 -
Sony Multiformat 14" - Panasonic 42" Plasma -
Ikegami HLDV7 - PVW EX-1



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 3, 2009 at 11:48:31 pm

[Bob Pierce] "This clip renders fine with no green blockies."

OK. The real test would be to pull your Kona card to see if then renders green, or call AJA and see if they have heard of this.




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walter biscardi
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 12:18:11 am

[Bob Pierce] "They told me that the Kona can play the rendered files, but that Magic Bullet can't render with a Kona installed on the computer. "

Utter and complete BS. We have three Kona systems, all have Magic Bullet on them. All can render just fine.

The Kona has ZERO to do with Magic Bullet's Renders. All it does is play back the files and allow you to ingest and output from audio / video sources. If you're having problems with ProRes, that's Red Giant's problem. Apple makes that codec and Magic Bullet has to be able to render to that codec properly.





Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

Read my Blog!

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!


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Bob Pierce
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 12:38:57 am

Thanks Walter. I think you must be right. Looks will render TO a pro res sequence but doesn't like to render FROM a pro res clip. I'll talk to Red Giant again tomorrow and bug them about this. Thanks for your help.
Bob

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.2 - Quicktime 7.4.5 -
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.3) - Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 -
Sony Multiformat 14" - Panasonic 42" Plasma -
Ikegami HLDV7 - PVW EX-1



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walter biscardi
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 12:42:57 am

[Bob Pierce] "I'll talk to Red Giant again tomorrow and bug them about this. "

I'm already ahead of you on this one. :-)



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

Read my Blog!

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!


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gary adcock
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 3:54:00 pm

[walter biscardi] "tter and complete BS. We have three Kona systems, all have Magic Bullet on them. All can render just fine. The Kona has ZERO to do with Magic Bullet's Renders"

Here here.

FCP does not allow for a video card to handle any of the "render" properties. A card can accelerate via an active scaling function (like Kona) or to handle proprietary compression formats(ProRes) but
Apple does not allow for any video card to accelerate rendering of any type.

FYI
those green flashes are the failure of your CPU to properly handle the ProRes content. - ProRes HQ really needs/ wants at the VERY LEAST a quad intel machine with 8 Gigs of RAM for realtime processing.

anything less than that CPU config you are asking for an issue with ProRes' HQ content.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Bob Pierce
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 4:42:35 pm

Thanks, Gary.
I'm using a Mac Pro with 2 dual-core Zeon 2.66 with 8 gig of ram. Is this adequate?
Perhaps not.
Thanks!
Bob

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.2 - Quicktime 7.4.5 -
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.3) - Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 -
Sony Multiformat 14" - Panasonic 42" Plasma -
Ikegami HLDV7 - PVW EX-1



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gary adcock
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 4:53:23 pm

[Bob Pierce] "I'm using a Mac Pro with 2 dual-core Zeon 2.66 with 8 gig of ram. Is this adequate?
Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.2 - Quicktime 7.4.5 -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.3) - Kona Lhe "



NO with this software setup- this OS/QT/ FCP setup is the main reason you are having issues.

you need to update ALL Of this software to fix this issue on renders.
you are 8 months behind in the OS and 18 months back with QT.

oh and 6 months behind with FCP.

if you use the latest tools- you need to stay up on the tweaks to make it work.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Bob Pierce
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 8:24:25 pm

Actually, it was the info on my posting that needed updating. I ran the previous update back in Oct, and was holding off on the latest one since the thing wasn't broke. But maybe I will now....
Bob

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.2 - Quicktime 7.5.5 -
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.4) - Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 -
Sony Multiformat 14" - Panasonic 42" Plasma -
Ikegami HLDV7 - PVW EX-1



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john kerr
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 9:01:26 pm

Well, I feel this turned into a game of telephone, where my original quote has taken a sharp left and been misinterpreted.

Our policy is that we only support 2 brands: ATi and Nvidia http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/support/compatibility/video-cards/

As for Kona [Mac], Matrox [Win], etc., I never meant to infer that you must "remove" a card, however, if you have 2 cards in conjunction showing output at the same,i.e. and Nvidia 8800gtx and any other card-- there WILL be a DIFFERENCE in output.

Secondly:
"They told me that it wasn't worth their time to configure it for AJA or BM cards since 95% of their users use the computer monitor, and don't need a video card. I found that hard to believe!"

Bob, I very much remember this conversation and the opposite was stated. We very much knew that we were releasing a product that does not support real-time accurate Color Correction preview when connected to a 3rd party card and monitor outside of the Nvidia Ati environment, and it is one of our priorities in our next release to pull the GPU requirement from the plugin, as Walter can attest to, as he was frustrated with this from the offset as well. You asked me when we will get this out and I told you it was actually in pre-beta now.

I did state that 95% [my guess] use it without so we made a painful decision we knew would cause some heat for v1.

I apologize if there was a mis-communication, and if anyone knows more than I in regards to this particular set up, I would love the feedback, the information, and to make sure my team is giving out the right information.

John Kerr
Red Giant Software


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 9:17:52 pm

Thanks for joining the thread John.


[john kerr] "Our policy is that we only support 2 brands: ATi and Nvidia"

That would be the same as most plug-in manufacturers who are following the FX-Plugs or whatever it's called whereby much of the realtime and rendering is being passed off to the graphics card. And of course this would have nothing to do with any video card that would be installed in the same machine.

And yes, we did discuss the lack of realtime output when I first tried out the product and back at that time you did say you were planning to roll that in at a later time.

Thanks for the clarifications John.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

Read my Blog!

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!


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Bob Pierce
Re: Kona and Magic Bullet Looks
on Feb 4, 2009 at 9:56:38 pm

John -
Please accept my apologies if I misquoted you. When I called your support line, I wasn't calling about real time output of the Kona, I was trying to solve my rendering problem. You did say that you thought my problem with my renders had something to do with the Kona.

Anyway I look forward to the updates and thank you for a great product.
Bob Pierce

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.5 - Quicktime 7.5.5 -
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.4) - Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 -
Sony Multiformat 14" - Panasonic 42" Plasma -
Ikegami HLDV7 - PVW EX-1



Return to posts index

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