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2K RED footage at 29.97

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Chris Campbell
2K RED footage at 29.97
on Dec 15, 2008 at 11:15:44 pm

I received 2k RED footage shot at 120 fps recorded in camera at 29.97. I was going to convert everything to prores HQ in log and capture and then output to HDCAM at 1080i, 59.94.
I can't seem to find any Kona settings that allow for the 2k cropping to 1080 at 29.97.
Is there any way to get this out through the Kona 3? I realize now they probably should have recorded the 120 fps in camera to 23.98. Will I have to use one of the RED apps instead?
I am using FCP 6.05.


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gary adcock
Re: 2K RED footage at 29.97
on Dec 16, 2008 at 12:32:18 am

[Chris Campbell] "I can't seem to find any Kona settings that allow for the 2k cropping to 1080 at 29.97. "

Cropping is done in the Kona Control Panel under the 2K Crop Tab where you can set to 2048 or 1920


There are no 29.97 seq presets for RED,
you will need to build your own presets for this standard video frame rate in the RED format.







gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Chris Campbell
Re: 2K RED footage at 29.97
on Dec 16, 2008 at 2:04:16 am

When you say there are no sequence presets for 29.97, you are talking about FCP right? I know you have to modify your settings in FCP, but I can't figure out how to play back through the Kona at 2048
(cropping to 1080)and also at a frame rate of 29.97 (59.94).
Maybe it's not even possible? All of the options in the Kona for 2k seem to be 23.98 or 24.



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gary adcock
Re: 2K RED footage at 29.97
on Dec 16, 2008 at 6:06:16 pm

[Chris Campbell] "When you say there are no sequence presets for 29.97, you are talking about FCP right?"

I know of no presets anywhere in any application for playback of 2K content at 29.97- capture YES -

2K is a film resolution and does not normally use frame rates above 25 for playback.

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO? My guess is that this is your first RED project and you got lost somewhere.

the difference for you is about 100 MB MORE data per second at 2048 /29.97 as it is at 1920 @23.98





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Chris Campbell
Re: 2K RED footage at 29.97
on Dec 16, 2008 at 7:34:21 pm

The DOP accidentally mistakenly shot at 29.97 thinking this would be the way to go since the final output is 59.94 HDCAM. We know now that this was a mistake, and we should have gone with 23.98, but we were trying to avoid having to do a crop to 1920x1080 and adding pulldown on output through the Kona at the same time(which I'm pretty sure is not even possible) at the same time. I'm not that familiar with the settings inside the camera itself...can you shoot 120fps mapped on to 29.97fps
with a frame size of 1920x1080 instead of 2k?



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gary adcock
Re: 2K RED footage at 29.97
on Dec 17, 2008 at 2:11:04 pm

[Chris Campbell] ". We know now that this was a mistake,"

Yes it was a mistake - just because you can buy a RED does not mean you really understand what it means to work in frame sizes beyond HD - there is a quantum jump from 1080 to 2K in needs, process and tools.

[Chris Campbell] "e should have gone with 23.98, but we were trying to avoid having to do a crop to 1920x1080 and adding pulldown on output through the Kona at the same time(which I'm pretty sure is not even possible) at the same time."

This is not an issue for a Kona 3 system-- I do it all the time.( as in nearly daily)

My FCP/ Kona system has been setup and doing both 4:4:4 and full rez 2K ( 2048 x 1556) for more than 3 years

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Ramona Howard
Re: 2K RED footage at 29.97
on Dec 17, 2008 at 4:50:28 pm

Chris,

Gary is the GURU on this stuff so take is advice, and he delivers it with a smile :)

The only option for 2K (2048x1556) playback at 29.976 is to do a real-time 2048x1556 to 2048x1080 crop (where you can apply a window, that can move). This will allow you to play out at any of these frame rates.
2048x1080i 25
2048x1080i 29.97
2048X1080i 30
2048x1080p 23.976
2048x1080p 24
2048x1080p 25
2048x1080p 29.97
2048X1080p 30
2048X1080p 50
2048X1080p 59.94
2048X1080p 60

I can not speak if FCP can do this but it is something we do on Rave regularly.

FYI-we do have a new tool arriving 2009 that allows a real time scale that will allow you to scale the 2048x1556(any raster for that matter) down to a video resolution to play at any video rate. Quality and real-time are the two factors that go into our tool design because of who is using the Rave systems.

Cheers,
Ramona



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Chris Campbell
Re: 2K RED footage at 29.97
on Dec 17, 2008 at 5:22:24 pm

Thanks for your suggestions. I ended up going into Redcine and used it to scale to proresHQ1080.
This worked for a few clips...and then I started getting bugginess and corrupt files (freeze frame issue).
So I ended up doing all the scaling in AE and rendering out to prores - this worked fine.
Next time we will shoot 23.98!!
Thanks


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