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Bad Pulldown?

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Angie Piccirillo
Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 7:17:45 pm

Hello All,

I have sort of complicated question...

I've been finishing some content to HDCAM 59.94i in Final Cut Pro 6 with the AJA Kona 3. When I get QC reports back, they are always mentioning "motion lag".

Recently, when I checked out a particular area of a source tape, I found that it appears that the pulldown is wrong on the tape. This being an HDCAM 59.95i source tape, straight from the client. What is appearing on my external monitors after the frames are captured is an interlaced frame occuring on an edit point (i.e. looks like last frame of one shot and first frame on the next shot as 50% opacity).

On the tape, it does not exist, and I only see it once the image has gone through the kona and into the computer.

I'm curious to know if anyone else has ever seen anything like this? I have pictures of what the frame looks like if anyone is interested.

Thanks,
Angie



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 7:19:44 pm

THere shouldn't be pulldown from a 60i source tape.

Can I see a picture?


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Angie Piccirillo
Re: Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 7:27:30 pm

This is what I was thinking, I first thought that there may have been a problem with the tape. Someone suggested that it may have "non-standard" pulldown, so I had to tape sent out, and it appears to have no issues?

This is why I am thinking it might be something the kona is doing when I bring it in? or else my settings are wrong somewhere?

I'm bringing it into final cut at 1080i 29.97 8-bit uncompressed from a 1080i 59.94 HDCAM source. The deck is an HDW-1800 set to 1080i 59.94.


*I just checked if I could post the picture, but it's from a movie that hasn't been released yet, so I am unable to post it here unfortunately. It has also happened on other tapes we have had here, and ALL were 59.94 1080i source tapes.





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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 8:15:47 pm

But the orig footage is film?


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Angie Piccirillo
Re: Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 8:40:43 pm

Yes, original footage is 24fps film. They have given us a 59.94i HDcam, so we did not do any pulldown. It was all already done before it got to me...


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 8:42:31 pm

Then it's got to be in the telecine or where ever that tape was made.

Jeremy


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gary adcock
Re: Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 3, 2008 at 1:31:01 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Then it's got to be in the telecine or where ever that tape was made"

What jeremy is saying is that if you shot 24fps and you are cutting a 60i tape - pulldown was added as part of the telecine process

SO you have a edit point in the middle of the pulldown cadence that is being reported as an error - your edit point has "pulldown" on both sides of it and it is being read as having a "drop"frame (on delivery a drop frame is held until a new frame is sent) because there is a break in the pulldown cadence.








gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD




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Terence Curren
Re: Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 7, 2008 at 3:19:33 pm

Welcome to the world of editing 24 frame shows in 30 frame. You have to be careful not to get flash fields. What you are experiencing is the nature of that beast.

In FCP, you only see field one of the frame. So you make an edit on what looks to you like a valid end frame of a shot. Now when it goes out to tape, it actually has two fields and the second field is from the following shot in the master.

Safest way to avoid this (a technique that has been safely used for at least twenty years) is to NEVER us the last frame of a shot in pre edited 24 frame to 30 frame material unless you are willing to evaluate it in two field viewing.

Two field viewing can be done on an external monitor with show frames as opposed to show field selected in the Kona control panel.

I have also been told that if your timeline monitor is set to 100 percent view in FCP, it will show both fields. I have never verified this though.

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca


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Angie Piccirillo
Re: Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 7, 2008 at 7:57:54 pm

Terrence,

Thank you for your advice. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has seen this...

I also ran some tests and it seems to help... if I set my timeline in final cut pro to "Field Dominance: None" and lay my 29.97 1080i sequence to tape at 59.94i.... the fields seem to go away?

I did another test laying to this same deck at 29.97psf (there is no 29.97i setting on the HDW-1800) and it re-introduces the field errors...

Looking at your signature, I believe we have done some finishing at Alpha Dogs before in the past year. Is this the same alpha dogs near Victory? Our facility is in Glendale.



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Terence Curren
Re: Bad Pulldown?
on Oct 7, 2008 at 9:25:02 pm

[Angie Piccirillo] "Looking at your signature, I believe we have done some finishing at Alpha Dogs before in the past year. Is this the same alpha dogs near Victory?"

We are on Olive half way between Buena Vista and Victory.



Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca


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