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24P Monitoring

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Robert Ober
24P Monitoring
on Jul 7, 2008 at 12:58:36 pm

Hello Folks,

If you can point me to a doc or thread that would be OK.

I have a clip that is 720/24p and is h.264. I am trying to monitor using the component out into a Sony BVM-A14F5U with the 68x component board. Interestingly this nearly 6k monitoring setup (The Sony plus input board) will not display 720/24p (I knew that when I bought it) and on any other setting I get frame updates only when I stop playback.

Any ideas on a way to monitor 720/24p H.264 through a LH to the Sony BVM-A14F5U ? If I transcode to ProRes or something will it work? Seems to me the LH should be able to do some sort of transcoding on the fly that will play.

Thanks,
Robert A. Ober


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gary adcock
Re: 24P Monitoring
on Jul 7, 2008 at 3:09:36 pm

[Robert Ober] "Any ideas on a way to monitor 720/24p H.264 through a LH to the Sony BVM-A14F5U "

Unless you are using a computer ( DVI) connection to the monitor- NO -

720p's delivery stream is ALWAYS 60 fps- unless you are viewing content on a computer monitor the pulldown will always be added- This is the nature of the SMPTE video specification for 720p





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Robert Ober
Re: 24P Monitoring
on Jul 7, 2008 at 6:05:26 pm

Thanks,

So from FCP 6.04 the LH cannot convert 720/24p to an interlaced signal like 720/60i? Seems like it should be able to do that.

Otherwise, would you suggest in the future working 60i and then convert on output?

I appreciate your help,
Robert:-)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 24P Monitoring
on Jul 7, 2008 at 6:48:32 pm

Couple of problems. Number one is that 720p is not interlaced, it's 720p not 720i.

Number two is that the LH only supports editing codecs, not web codecs. If you convert your 720p24 movie to something that the Kona can understand (such as ProRes or DVCPro HD or Uncompressed), you will be able to play out video from the Kona. It will add pulldown to 720p24 material to make it 720p60.

Also, is your monitor an SD only monitor?


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Robert Ober
Re: 24P Monitoring
on Jul 9, 2008 at 10:39:28 pm

Number one is that 720p is not interlaced, it's 720p not 720i.

Not sure what I said that would make you think I don't understand that. Was stating that I expected the LH to be able to convert progressive to interlaced on the fly.

Number two is that the LH only supports editing codecs, not web codecs. If you convert your 720p24 movie to something that the Kona can understand (such as ProRes or DVCPro HD or Uncompressed), you will be able to play out video from the Kona. It will add pulldown to 720p24 material to make it 720p60.


That's what I thought except I was not sure about the codec. I did a test to DVCPRO HD and it flickers on the monitor but I did not change the output setting on the Kona. Started a convert to ProRes so I will see what I get with that.

Also, is your monitor an SD only monitor?

Nope, Does 1080i at various rates including 24pfs. Ya know Sony likes the 1080i and the 1080p version is many more thousands.

Thanks Much,
Robert:-)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 24P Monitoring
on Jul 9, 2008 at 11:58:41 pm

[Robert Ober] "Was stating that I expected the LH to be able to convert progressive to interlaced on the fly. "

Becuase 720i is not a format which confuses me why you'd say that.


[Robert Ober] "I did a test to DVCPRO HD and it flickers on the monitor but I did not change the output setting on the Kona."

You have to make sure your footage is 1280x720 DVCPro HD with a frame rate of 23.976.


[Robert Ober] "Nope, Does 1080i at various rates including 24pfs. Ya know Sony likes the 1080i and the 1080p version is many more thousands. "

Does it support 720p? My cheaper PVM CRT does.


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gary adcock
Re: 24P Monitoring
on Jul 7, 2008 at 8:37:52 pm

[Robert Ober] "So from FCP 6.04 the LH cannot convert 720/24p to an interlaced signal like 720/60i? Seems like it should be able to do that. "

Not true- the LHe card can and does supply the pulldown when playing out from FCP, as jeremy said you are not working in what is considered an editing codec, H.264 was created as a delivery medium and not intended for editing with on a MAC.

I was clear about 720p ( "p" as in progressive) always needing 60 fps (frames per second)

Why don't you fill us in on what you are trying to do with the content.

what OS / FCP / kona driver combo would be helpful on any IT help desk.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Robert Ober
Re: 24P Monitoring
on Jul 9, 2008 at 10:58:26 pm

Not true- the LHe card can and does supply the pulldown when playing out from FCP, as jeremy said you are not working in what is considered an editing codec, H.264 was created as a delivery medium and not intended for editing with on a MAC.

Right, I was just trying to play a tutorial I downloaded out to the monitor.

I was clear about 720p ( "p" as in progressive) always needing 60 fps (frames per second)

Well, There are video cameras now that record 24 frames or maybe 23.98 natively without the inserted frames so I am not sure what enviroment you are referring to.

Thanks for the help,
Robert:-)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 24P Monitoring
on Jul 10, 2008 at 12:07:16 am

[Robert Ober] "Well, There are video cameras now that record 24 frames or maybe 23.98 natively without the inserted frames so I am not sure what enviroment you are referring to. "

In 720p, even when you have recorded to the native frame rate, the ONLY frame rate that you will see on a monitor is 720p59.94. SO if your timeline is 720p24 or 720p30, the KOna will add pulldown to conform the the 720p60 SMPTE spec. No monitor that has a base band video connection will play 720p24N or 720p30N. You will always watch 720p60 even though it's 720p24 or 720p30 in the computer. I don't know how may more ways I can say that.

Jeremy


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Robert Ober
Re: 24P Monitoring
on Jul 10, 2008 at 1:30:49 am

Thanks,

You finally made the bulb light. I did not realize you were saying 60i is incorrect. Given Sony's up till recently penchant for interlaced video (My XBR CRT in the living room upscales to 1080i) I assumed and did not find anything to the contrary that 720/60 was interlaced. I fed the Mac desktop to the BVM-A14F5U and the display did indicate 720/60p so I was confused and wrong.

You and the other gentleman have been a great help. I look forward to my ProRes conversion finishing so I can see what that looks like out the LH.

Have a good eve or whatever,
Robert:-)


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