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23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3

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Andrij Evans
23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 18, 2008 at 6:49:27 pm

Hi Guys,
In relation to my previous post with 23.98 525 capture with the kona 3, I am now trying to capture the same with an LHe. The difference now is that i'm also using a J-H3 deck too.
The LHe according to Rudy at AJA doesn't support the realtime downconvert from 23.98, however it will capture native SD at that rate, so I proposed a solution.
Set FCP to capture 23.98 with pull-down 29.97 as before, with FCP removing the extra frames.
Set the deck to playback 23.98 PD and downconvert to SDI.
Capture.
Not quite, It seems that the deck automatically converts the timecode as well, and outputs 29.97 TC.
Is there a way of setting this up so that I can digitise properly and have correct timecode for onlining at full- res later on?

Thanks

Andrij


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 18, 2008 at 9:55:25 pm

In order to get pulldown removal to work on a Kona (or any capture card, really) you have to make sure your captures start an on A frame.

Jeremy


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Andrij Evans
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 18, 2008 at 10:04:04 pm

hi Jeremy,
I can set the deck to transmit an a-frame signal, but I'm more concerned about getting 23.98 timecode when it shows it converted to 29.97 on the front if the deck



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 19, 2008 at 1:04:24 am

Yo might want to look into a Cinema Tools database, or make your Kona 3 the capture station and don't worry about it, or upgrade to a Kona3 at each capture station.




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gary adcock
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 19, 2008 at 4:06:57 am

[Andrij Evans] " can set the deck to transmit an a-frame signal, but I'm more concerned about getting 23.98 timecode when it shows it converted to 29.97 on the front if the deck"

It is NOT going to convert the TC signal - it cannot, if you capture with 29.97 TC that is what is on the tape. the card cannot covert TC for you ( nor should it IMHO)





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Jeremy Newmark
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 19, 2008 at 4:12:40 pm

When down-converting a 23.976 signal out of a JH-3, the signal will always be 29.97. It will always have the pull-down in it, you can not get a 23.976 SD signal out of this deck. You can set it to display a burn-in that shows both the original 23.976 TC and the 29.97 TC, but that will be a burn-in, not the signal going from the deck to the capture card.

best regards,
jeremy



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Andrij Evans
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 19, 2008 at 4:18:42 pm

yes, I understand the reasons for them making the deck convert the timecode, I just wish that I could toggle that on or off. I was hoping to avoid getting another kona 3 and make do with the LHe for digitising footage for the SAN. I guess I'll have to find another way around it or live with the way it is.



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Chris Borjis
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 19, 2008 at 5:13:53 pm


The LH can't capture 23.976???




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Andrij Evans
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 19, 2008 at 5:15:47 pm

It can, but not while down-converting to 525 at the same time. For this I have been reliably told by AJA, you need the Kona 3.


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Chris Borjis
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 19, 2008 at 5:23:09 pm


well thats kind of a bummer.




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Andrij Evans
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 19, 2008 at 5:31:37 pm

I guess you could say it is.
Though here in the UK, that phrase has an entirely different meaning, but I get you're drift ;-)



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 19, 2008 at 5:32:48 pm

[Chris Borjis] "well thats kind of a bummer. "

It's also the least expensive HD card that AJA makes.

The LH can capture 23.98, it just can't process 23.98 HD and down convert to 23.98 SD at the same time.

It can also remove pulldown from 23.98 Sd sources if it's set up properly.

It can capture 23.98.

Jeremy


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Chris Borjis
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 20, 2008 at 7:55:14 pm


I hear you, it just seems a bit trivial to not be
able to downconvert while the same frame rate is employed.

now if it would refuse to convert frame rates on the fly
I could understand.





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gary adcock
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 21, 2008 at 12:50:41 pm

[Chris Borjis] "it just seems a bit trivial to not be
able to downconvert while the same frame rate is employed."


why is that?

525 23.98 is not a SMPTE standard for video transmission or delivery, 29.97 is the only accepted frame rate for NTSC TV. The specifications for most hardware require video to conform to the delivery and transfer methods as set by SMPTE and AJA products adhere to those standards.

This workflow can be achieved by using the deck to downconvert to NTSC (since all decks can do this) then extract the pulldown with the Kona card.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Chris Borjis
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Jun 30, 2008 at 4:42:11 pm

[gary adcock] "This workflow can be achieved by using the deck to downconvert to NTSC (since all decks can do this) then extract the pulldown with the Kona card."

good point! :)



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Andrij Evans
Re: 23.98 525 with LHe and J-H3
on Aug 5, 2008 at 11:56:20 am

I just thought I'd mention how I'm doing this now.
As mentioned above, insert a pull-down and down-convert with the deck and remove the pulldown with the Kona Card. However, I am now capturing with BITC. Because the deck outputs a completely new timecode at 29.97. The BITC shows ORG timecode (23.98). So I then Modify the TC in FCP to what the tc on the screen is showing me. All OK so-far.
Though I'm never sure about drop, non-drop. In the UK we just have fixed rates.

Andrij



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