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525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM

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Andrij Evans
525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 7, 2008 at 9:08:59 am

Hi Everyone,
I'm a newbie to the forum, I have a query regarding the Kona 3 and ProRes 422 (HQ). The plan is to digitise all my 1080p 23.98 HDCAM footage as 525 23.98 ProRes for offlining, then Online at full-res later. However, when I digitise, I seem to get a strange double pull-down effect, every 2 or 3 frames, a frame is repeated.
The input to the Kona is 23.98 1080psf, Final Cut is set with the 525 23.98 project, as Aja's tech support specified, but it still won't digitise properly. It's difficult editing the 525 footage when you can't see all the frames, the timecode is accurate 23.98. I onlined the first programme and that went fine, no problems with the picture or sound, but there MUST be a way of getting accurate 525 23.98 frames into Final Cut.
Has anyone else tried this? Have you had the same issue?

Andrij


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 8, 2008 at 7:37:57 pm

1) Quit FCP

2) Open the Kona Control Panel

3) Set your primary format to 525 23.98 and you secondary format to 1080 23.98sf.

4) Open FCP and choose the 525 23.98 ProRes easy setup.

5) Double check that the control panel has a down convert icon on your selected SDI input and that your deck is in fact sending 23.98 according to the control panel.

5) Do-si-do.

Jeremy


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Andrij Evans
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 10:38:21 am

Thanks for the reply Jeremy,
But that's what I thought also, but this is not what I'm seeing. Firstly the Kona preset has the vtr timecode set to 29.97 not 23.98.
Secondly the Kona control panel primary input jumps to 29.97 and inserts a strange pull-down to the video which not only is very annoying, but rubbish for editing.
Aja support just claim that this is just a reporting error in the control panel.

Is it possible for you to confirm that 525 23.98 capture with smooth video IS possible?

Andrij


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 12:06:02 pm

[Andrij Evans] "the Kona control panel primary input jumps to 29.97 and inserts a strange pull-down to the video which not only is very annoying, but rubbish for editing. "

Are you sure your deck is sending 23.98?


[Andrij Evans] "Is it possible for you to confirm that 525 23.98 capture with smooth video IS possible? "

It's been a little while since I've had to do this so maybe something has changed. I will give a try for you today, yes.

Jeremy


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Andrij Evans
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 12:27:17 pm

Yes I am positive it's sending 23.98.
I am resorting to 720p 23.98 ProRes as that has no problems whatsoever, though it'll take up more space than I would like.

Andrij



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 12:33:55 pm

[Andrij Evans] "though it'll take up more space than I would like. "

You can use DVCPro HD, that will be smaller.




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gary adcock
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 1:19:04 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Are you sure your deck is sending 23.98? "

Good point.

also note that 525 23.98 is not format that can be looked at on a conventional TV that format - like 720 needs to have all of the frames loaded for correct display on a broadcast monitor.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Andrij Evans
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 1:23:04 pm

Yes, I saw that. I was just viewing it on the mac monitor with FCP.
The picture judders and if I step through a clip there are frequent repeated frames. which look like a false pull-down.

A


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gary adcock
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 1:35:27 pm

[Andrij Evans] "The picture judders and if I step through a clip there are frequent repeated frames. which look like a false pull-down."

OK

which HDCAM deck are you recording from?


gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Andrij Evans
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 1:39:11 pm

HDW D2000


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 3:37:52 pm

Andrij, while I don't have a 2000 deck, I passed 1080sf23.98 video to my kona and captured it 525 23.98. I am finding the same thing you are with the same pattern. 3 frames then a dupe.

Stay with AJA support on this one.

Jeremy


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Andrij Evans
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 3:50:45 pm

hmmm. At least i'm not the only one!
I thought I was going crazy. AJA support have only given me the advice that you did on your first reply.

A


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 5:09:20 pm

[Andrij Evans] "AJA support have only given me the advice that you did on your first reply. "

Write back to them and point them to this thread.

Jeremy


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Andrij Evans
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 16, 2008 at 6:30:40 pm

I've done that.
Let's hope they work out what the issue is.

A


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Andrij Evans
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 17, 2008 at 6:39:54 pm

Ok,
I've had a reply from Rudy at AJA. It appears to be a settings issue. Here are his instructions:

1) Go to AJA control panel -> format:
a) Set the Primary to 525i23.98.
b) Set the Secondary to 1080pSF23.98.
2) Setup FCP with a AJA Kona 3 NTSC 23.98 easy setup.
3) Go to FCP audio video settings and set the device control preset to AJA
Kona 3 23.98 Sony VTR A. This should get you 23.98 timecode.
4) Go to FCP audio video settings -> capture presets(tab) and click on
(this will put you in the capture preset editor and you will be
editing the copy).
a) Set the Input to AJA Kona 525i23.98 (720x486).
b) Rename the capture preset accordingly and save.

The difference between the original 525i23.98 capture preset and then one
you have created is this: The original capture presets looks for a 525i29.97
input signal and remove 3:2 pull-down. The new capture preset looks for a
525i23.98 video signal and does not remove 3:2 pull-down. The frame buffer
should now show 525i23.98 on capture.

I've done this and can confirm that it works!!!

Thanks to everyone who helped sort it out.

Andrij


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 525 ProRes 23.98 from HDCAM
on Jun 17, 2008 at 6:45:25 pm

[Andrij Evans] "The original capture presets looks for a 525i29.97
input signal and remove 3:2 pull-down."


Perfect.

Thanks for the follow up.


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