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1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB

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Simon Dinnigan
1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 2:07:16 pm

Hi

I'm trying to capture HD footage at 1080p 29.97 10bit Uncompressed RGB, having a few problems.

Has anyone had any success trying to do this and is it actually possible at this frame rate?

Thanks

Simon


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 3:00:08 pm

[Simon Dinnigan] "Has anyone had any success trying to do this and is it actually possible at this frame rate? "

As long as your drive is fast enough, yes.


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Simon Dinnigan
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 4:01:45 pm

The raid is definitely fast enough, but the colours are coming out all wrong, almost like a negative.

We created a custom Kona capture preset in FCP but it did not seem to work. The file size was 237MB per and playing back, but as I said the colours were all wrong.

Settings:

180p 29.97
10bit uncompressed
RGB 4:4:4

Any ideas?

Thanks

Simon



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 4:05:23 pm

What's your source?


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Simon Dinnigan
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 4:34:09 pm

We are taking a signal out of a PS3 through a Gefen HDMI to HDSDI scaler outputting 1080p 29.97 RGB signal.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 4:49:19 pm

So why are you trying to capture dual link 4:4:4 RGB? Way overkill.

Just set your capture to ProRes or ProResHQ 1080i (or 8 or 10bit Uncompressed if you need Uncompressed) and capture plain ole single link 4:2:2 video. It will be great. That HDMI is only 8bit anyway.

Jeremy


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Simon Dinnigan
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 5:08:23 pm

Jeremy

If it were up to me I would have done this from the outset, but the bosses who have nothing better to do than put us and the equipment through our paces want to see the files in the maximum quality possible, however indeterminate that may be.



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gary adcock
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 5:31:37 pm

[Simon Dinnigan] "We are taking a signal out of a PS3 through a Gefen HDMI to HDSDI scaler outputting 1080p 29.97 RGB signal."

That is not 1080p nor is it 4:4:4

capturing 4:4:4 content in FCP requires a hardware card and a Dual Link HDSDI source.

What the HDMI conversion is doing is line doubling the 60i signal to make it look like it is progressive.

Change your settings to be 1080 29.97i 10bit



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Simon Dinnigan
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 5:50:11 pm

The Gefen is outputting Dual Link HDSDI with output setting of 1080p 29.97 RGB. We are ingesting this via Dual Link HDSDI into the Kona. We have had some excellent support from AJA over the past couple of hours and have got it to work according to their settings suggested, but there is a bit of an issue with the quality of the footage ingested. We are now trying to overcome at what point in the chain is the weak link.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 6:07:31 pm

[Simon Dinnigan] " We are now trying to overcome at what point in the chain is the weak link."

I'd bet money on the dual link conversion. Seriously, as a litmus, just capture to 8 or 10 bit uncompressed single link 1080i and see how it looks.

Jeremy


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Simon Dinnigan
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 6:34:08 pm

We've had it coming out of the Gefen at 1080p 8bit and it looks fine, but would really like to see what this system can really do. If you have all this kit and don't put it through it's paces to find out it's real capabilities, it's like owning a Ferrari and putting a limiter on the engine.

I suppose the cut and thrust of this is that we have been given a brief to deliver 1080p 4:4:4 quicktime movies of this footage and that's what we are trying to do. I know that it will look absolutely fine in 4:2:2 but that is not the challenge we have been set.

If there is a weak link, I must agree that it will probably be the Gefen box. I will be investigating in more detail tomorrow and will hopefully get you some results.

One last thing: We are running an EasyRaid (12x 500gig drives) Raid 5, capable of over 300MB second (supposedly), and the footage we have digitized in 4:4:4 is coming in at 237.5MB second. It has 1 controller, so only 1 Fibre channel cable connected to 4gig Apple FC card. Can we simply add another EasyRaid connected to the other FC port on the HBC and then stripe both Raids together in Disk Utility? Or do we need to use a FC switch?

BTW. Many thanks to everyone for their brilliant support and advice.

Simon



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 7:05:04 pm

[Simon Dinnigan] "Can we simply add another EasyRaid connected to the other FC port on the HBC and then stripe both Raids together in Disk Utility?"

Yes, at that point it'll be raid 50 (two raid 5 sets striped together as raid 0). No need for a switch as long as your raid hardware is internal to the EasyRaid (sorry not familiar with that exact brand) and your fibre card has more than one port. You will be fine there and you will definitely want a dual channel raid to give you the throughput and overhead that you will need.


[Simon Dinnigan] "it's like owning a Ferrari and putting a limiter on the engine. "

Accept what you are trying to do (and using your car analogy) is take a Chevy big block and put that engine in a Ferrari chassis and expect it to perform like a Ferrari. You aren't limiting the Ferrari engine, you are swapping it out for a different product all together. Just because it says Ferrari on the outside doesn't make it a Ferrari. Yes the chassis (4:4:4/RGB) is made by ferrari but the power plant (highly compressed 4:2:0 8 bit HDMI footage converted to dual link) is still made by Chevy. No reason to make it a Ferrari when a Chevy is completely capable of pulling the load.

The point I am trying to make is that the damage to the PS3 footage has been done. 4:4:4 is highly beneficial when you are coming off ultra high definition chips at resolutions at or exceeding 1080p all the while maintaing lossless color sampling. Capturing PS3 as 4:4:4 will not suddenly make it 4:4:4 and will cause all kinds of grief in the process. You will see what the system can do in dual link if you capture footage that has been originated and produced for the dual link process. Anything else you are just wrapping your footage in a dual link container for no real gain. 1080p 422 is fantastic quality and much more easily attainable.

Now, all that being said, do you HAVE to do it this way for some reason?

Just curious.

Jeremy


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Simon Dinnigan
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 8:10:25 pm

Jeremy

I totally agree with you, and your expansion on my rushed analogy was very poignant.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Now, all that being said, do you HAVE to do it this way for some reason? "

The big bosses in London have given us the brief of capturing the footage in 4:4:4 uncompressed, so we have to try and do it. I know that it will make no difference apart from dramatically increasing file sizes and I have told them this, but they want us to try and I want to prove a point by showing them the difference (or lack of) between the 2 captures.

Thanks again Jeremy

Simon






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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on May 6, 2008 at 8:53:56 pm

No worries, Simon. Post back with any questions.

Jeremy


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Joey Burnham
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on Jun 4, 2008 at 10:26:28 pm

You have my sympathy completely. The other week I had a client insist on supplying him with an HD Beta-sp and would not cease and desist no matter how much I tried. Oh, and this was so that he could master a blu-ray dvd. :-)

I say just fake it.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 1080p @ 29.97fps 10 bit Uncompressed RGB
on Jun 5, 2008 at 2:57:36 am

Hey Simon. Whatever came of this?


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