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new scopes for HD

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Bob Zelin
new scopes for HD
on Mar 12, 2008 at 11:10:36 pm

Hi -
I can't believe I am beating out a Cow press release.
I just read that Tektronix is releasing the new WVR-5000 HD scope. It's $6750, and I think the street price is going to be $5100, making this the CHEAPEST HD/SD scope on the market (cheaper than Leader or Harris/Videotek).

Amazing times.

bob Zelin


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walter biscardi
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 12, 2008 at 11:49:38 pm

[Bob Zelin] "making this the CHEAPEST HD/SD scope on the market (cheaper than Leader or Harris/Videotek)."

About darn time. That's something we could afford and install in the rack for all the systems to share.

Still don't understand why someone can't make a $2,500 or cheaper scope by simply making the unit itself in a small rack mount box the size of a K3 box that you connect into any computer display of your choice.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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Bob Zelin
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 13, 2008 at 1:29:10 am

Gee, maybe this could be the product AJA releases at NAB2009 !

bob Zelin




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walter biscardi
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 13, 2008 at 1:32:37 am

[Bob Zelin] "Gee, maybe this could be the product AJA releases at NAB2009 !"

I already tried last year. Not something AJA wanted to get in to. I can understand that. Black Burst is easy, but test signal stuff, who wants to get into that?


Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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gary adcock
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 13, 2008 at 4:15:06 pm

[Bob Zelin] "Amazing times."

yeah

on the other side Leader is now shipping the 5800 series scopes that analyses 2 Dual link streams or 4 single links HDSDI streams against each other.

Now for some quantitative comparisons of Compressed vs. Uncompressed....

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Russell Lasson
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 13, 2008 at 10:09:58 pm

What's the name of the software scopes that you run on a windows box with SDI in. I can't remember it?

Anyone have experience with it?

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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Russell Lasson
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 13, 2008 at 10:19:32 pm

After a little searching I found it again.

http://vidscope-vx.com/

Anyone tried this with a AJA card?

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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Russell Lasson
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 14, 2008 at 12:24:46 am

So after looking more, I found Bob's article on it. Also this quote:

SO, here is the cheap solution. Get a HP xw4400 Win XP computer (about $1000) stick in a Blackmagic Decklink HD card ($995), and get the Hamlet VidScope software, which will use the Blackmagic (or AJA) card as it's hardware, and display a BEAUTIFUL SD or HD display for you - all windows (vector, waveform, picture, audio) can be instantly resized.

Anyone else want to comment on it?

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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Bob Zelin
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 14, 2008 at 2:20:37 am

this is my comment (because I can't shut up) -
To this day, I have not found ONE PERSON that is willing to dedicate an XP PC, a Xena card or BMD card, and this software to make a scope. There are two kinds of users - those that want to spend zero money (how come I can't use the software scopes in FCP) - and those that understand the need for a real dedicated scope, and have no issue paying $7000 (and now possible $5000) for a scope. I LOVE the Hamlet Vidscope, but I have not had even ONE client dive in to do it.

Bob Zelin




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Russell Lasson
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 14, 2008 at 2:26:55 am

Well I might be the first:)

If I only needed 422 HDSDI, then I probably would spend the extra money, but with my needs quickly adapting to 444, the Videoscope-vx444 looks mightly attractive and under $5K too.

I'll let you know when I finally pull the trigger.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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walter biscardi
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 14, 2008 at 12:12:18 pm

[Bob Zelin] "I LOVE the Hamlet Vidscope, but I have not had even ONE client dive in to do it."

The only thing I"ll add here is we tested a Hamlet scope a few years ago against a Tektronix scope and it was horrible. Image was not sharp and we really could not read the levels nearly as easily as we would on the Tektronix. Of course at that time it was $7,500 vs. $14,000 for two scopes, but we were not impressed.

Again, that was a few years ago so they may have improved their quality since then. I will say that Color's scopes are dead-on accurate to a Tektronix WFM-700 scope as we tested that when I first purchased Final Touch HD.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
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Chris Seguine
Re: hamlet scopes for HD
on Mar 17, 2008 at 6:48:33 pm

The hamlet hardware scopes are junk.

Their vx software scope is very promising. The interface is ok, it records too which is great, and price is reasonable, even including a pc. Levels were accurate, histograms are nice, pixel chooser is great.

Its similar to the omnitek minus the luts and bitstream decode.

Small problem, it is unusable, at least for HD - 422 or 444.

We tried it with the xena2k, decklink and intensity cards. There is a huge delay in screen updates, seconds, not frames. Around 5 seconds for 444 sources, slightly less for 422 and hdv sources.
This is on a 8core workstation. They said they were having ds problems with the input drivers and would have an update to fix it - this was december, still nothing.

It also currently truncates everything to 8bits.

They have a nice fluff piece on their site by some "DIT" in LA, he said he was using a multibridge. Must have been working with an SD downconvert, no way you can use this for live field monitoring in HD in its current state.

Its not rocket science, convert hex to decimal, plot on graph.

It would be great if it worked.

Omnitek is great, way overpriced, but I rather put money on something with software upgrades than on a dead end leader scope. Leader is the only other scope that shows 444, tek and videotek show 4:2:2 or 0:2:2 stream, not both simultaneously.





---
Christopher Seguine
Sublime Films, San Francisco


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Russell Lasson
Re: hamlet scopes for HD
on Mar 20, 2008 at 8:49:28 pm

[Chris Seguine] "We tried it with the xena2k, decklink and intensity cards. There is a huge delay in screen updates, seconds, not frames. Around 5 seconds for 444 sources, slightly less for 422 and hdv sources. "

Ahhhh!!!! Seconds! Wow. Hopefully they improve this. I'll have to check it out at NAB.

Thanks,

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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Igor Ridanovic
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 11, 2009 at 7:03:06 pm

A setup where computer and a video I/O board act as a scope is too big, consumes too much power and there are too many chains in the link and opportunities to corrupt the signal.

http://www.HDhead.com
HD and D-cinema Consultant


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Bob Zelin
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 11, 2009 at 8:17:31 pm

you respond 1 year later ?

bobZelin




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Ramona Howard
Re: new scopes for HD
on Mar 11, 2009 at 8:42:55 pm

Igor,

I would be interested in where you think the problem could occur to corrupt the signal?

Power consumption I agree with. A hardware scope could consume less power than a computer running with an I/O board

Cheers,
Ramona



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