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Kona 3: SDI issue

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Mitch Ives
Kona 3: SDI issue
on Mar 11, 2008 at 6:02:00 pm

Have a new Kona 3 (5.1 drivers) on an 8-core Mac. I am having a feedback loop problem when both the input and output SDI cables are attached. Using just the output or just the input works fine.

I initially discovered it with a DSR-1500, but I have the same problem with a 2000 HDcam deck. This all worked perfectly on the Kona LH.

I initially had a separate blackburst generator feeding the Kona, the deck, monitor, etc... all properly terminated. As I said, it worked fine on the LH in a G5 (still does). Using all the same cables and everything, the Kona 3 bounces the image up and down (kind of a grunge look), even on a monitor directly attached to the back of the deck itself.

I have since taken the ref generator out of the path, using just two cables between the deck and the K-Box... still no joy. I've also tried all new cables... still no luck. Today I received a new K3 board, still the same issue. Connecting all of this to the LH makes it work fine.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful...



Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3: SDI issue
on Mar 11, 2008 at 10:33:25 pm

This happens when? When FCP is launched? When FCp is quit? All the time?


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Mitch Ives
Re: Kona 3: SDI issue
on Mar 12, 2008 at 2:04:09 am

Launching FCP causes no problem... there is some garbage (for lack of a better term) on the SDI monitor connected to SDI out 2. Where it becomes noticeable is when you open the Log & Capture window. That's when the images on the monitors become unstable (even in pause mode). The SDI HD monitor has a vertical sort of jump to the image (with a violent sort of double imaging). The Plasma connected to the YUV out of the Kbox has more of a horizontal instability (some intermittent venetian blind effect of colored bands as well). The odd thing is that in the case of DVcam it captures fine, even with the monitors all a twitter. I didn't get a chance to try the HDcam capture today to see if it results in a successful capture in spite of what the monitors show.

When attempting to use ETT, the DVcam works, the HDcam 2000 won't function, as we discovered that it acts as though there is a frequency mismatch. These decks tend to sit down and quit when it perceives a mismatch.

The odd thing is that the Kona Control panel displays the color bars very stable with FCP closed. The problem seems to be when the Log & Capture window opens... then FCP switches the Kona card to Input mode. AJA tech thinks that both the deck and the K3 are both trying to lock on the sync, causing the disturbance. Closing the L&C window switches the K3 back to output mode and it stops.

If you connect only the deck SDI output cable to capture... all is fine. Connecting only the input SDI cable when recording back to tape, and all is fine.

All of these decks work fine on the Kona LH, but it has analog capabilty. I'm told the IoHD also works with these decks, but it also has analog capability. The K3 is all digital (save the YUV out for monitoring). This seems to be at the heart of the matter. AJA tech confirms that the K3 develops sync differently... they use the term "more precisely".

Tomorrow we are going to try a more sophisticated Blackburst/sync option.

In the meantime, if anyone is using an HDcam deck with a K3, can they confirm that they are able to have both SDI cables connected to the deck and the Kbox? If they are able to capture and lay back to tape with the cables permanently connected, that would be helpful to know. If they can do this, I would like to know if they are using a sync generator, what kind, and how they have it cabled.

Thanks for any help that anyone can provide...



Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3: SDI issue
on Mar 12, 2008 at 6:39:30 pm

I got ya. Take your deck out of EE and you should get a black signal out of the deck and close the loop.

Jeremy




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3: SDI issue
on Mar 12, 2008 at 7:28:28 pm

Also, if you have the screen space, keep the Kona control panel visible when you open the log and cap window. What happens when you do? Does the format change?


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Mitch Ives
Re: Kona 3: SDI issue
on Mar 12, 2008 at 11:04:13 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Take your deck out of EE and you should get a black signal out of the deck and close the loop. "

Both the decks have EE off. The 2000 HDcam you can check from the front panel display. In the 1500 DVCam the menus all have EE disabled.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Also, if you have the screen space, keep the Kona control panel visible when you open the log and cap window. What happens when you do? Does the format change?"

Have done that actually. The only change is that the Kona switches from "free-run" genlock to "SDI in", which is normal on the K3 and the LH...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com


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Mitch Ives
Re: Kona 3: SDI issue-making progress
on Mar 13, 2008 at 1:11:02 am

Armed with a tip from AJA tech that the K3 syncs differently and uses much tighter tolerances, I obtained an AJA GEN10 HD/SD Sync Generator. As soon as a replaced our sync generator with this one, the 1500 DVcam deck stopped having the problem. Unfortunately, the 2000 HDcam deck isn't here at the moment, so I can't test it.

It seems that even though our sync generator has worked for years, and still works with the Kona LH just fine, that the Kona 3 is perhaps a bit fussier as to sync. The GEN10 is nice as you can configure some of the outputs to standard 2 level sync for SD, and some of the other outputs to tri-level sync for HD. We're hoping that this solves the problem with the 2000 HDcam deck on the K3 as well. If it does, then it seems that anyone buying a Kona 3, should probably get a GEN10 as well...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3: SDI issue-making progress
on Mar 13, 2008 at 2:27:35 am

Sweet.


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shaka armstrong
Re: Kona 3: SDI issue-making progress
on Apr 11, 2008 at 4:16:37 pm

Thank you for this thread. I'm new to FCP and have been having this issue outputting to a D1800. I'm still having some of the issues you've posted while using a Horita BSG-50; though I'm at least able to ETT now. I will definitely be telling the buyers to pick up the Gen10 as we're doing HD for broadcast and I cannot just "crash record" my masters, which of course works just fine.



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shaka armstrong
Re: Kona 3: SDI issue-making progress
on Apr 14, 2008 at 4:23:57 pm

Sorry to double post, but Mitch did you ever test this out with the HDCAM deck? If so, did it work with that deck as well (your new Gen10 kit)?



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