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Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)

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Shane Ross
Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 5, 2008 at 10:01:56 pm

OK...I have the new Jan 2008 MacPro, and found a puzzling thing. I could NOT open the Expansion slot utility...it said it does not work for the machine I have. Huh? So I looked into it and found this:

"Mac Pro (Early 2008)
The Mac Pro (Early 2008) computers implement PCI-E revision 2.0 which support twice the data rate per lane as the PCI Express revision 1. Slots 1 and 2 are both x16 revision 2.0 slots. Slots 3 and 4 are both x4 revision 1 slots. Placing a revision 1 card in a revision 2.0 slot, or visa-versa, is supported and results in a revision 1 link.
The number of lanes for each of these slots is permanently set for the Mac Pro (Early 2008). The Expansion Slot Utility doesn't apply."

Slots 3 and 4 are x4 slots...hardwired as x4 slots. Slots 1 and 2 are the x16 slots. SO...my Fibre card in slot 4 is only running at 2Gb instead of 4Gb, and the Kona Card isn't running at full speed.

With this new config, is it still advisable to run the Kona in slot 3?

Seeing what you all think. I e-mailed an AJA contact this same question.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog!


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Fred Connors Jr
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 5, 2008 at 10:40:06 pm

Shane

Slots 3 and 4 are fixed at 4x as is the Kona-3. We have the Kona-3 in slot 4, but slot 3 should work as well.

We have an 8x Raid card in slot 2, it will run up to 16x so the 8x is fine there.

No big problems so far other than some small issues with 10.5.2.

Fred

The Troupe - Modern Media Design & Production


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Fred Connors Jr
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 5, 2008 at 10:41:42 pm

One other thing.

We can't select the Kona-3 as a Macintosh Desktop monitor. The selection is not greyed out it just does not work.

Fred

The Troupe - Modern Media Design & Production


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Shane Ross
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 5, 2008 at 10:45:31 pm

Thanks Fred. Good to know it works.

I don't need the desktop option myself, but I can see where that would be a pain not to have.


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog!


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 5, 2008 at 11:19:57 pm

[Fred Connors Jr] "We can't select the Kona-3 as a Macintosh Desktop monitor. The selection is not greyed out it just does not work. "

read the file that came with the driver- there are issues with using the Mac Desktop setting i the newest version of the OS- it has been disabled in the latest version of the AJA control panel.







gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Fred Connors Jr
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 8:31:16 pm

Gary

Thank you for the heads up on that note. Apparently there are others that are still sorting things out with both the newest Mac Pro systems and 10.5.2.

As Jean-Philippe Mariani pointed out in this posting, http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/98/869152 AJA is recommending that the ATTO-EAS-R380 be place in a 4x slot.

ATTO has confirmed that there are some known issue with the early 2008 MacPro and the R380 card and they are working on it.

I am confident that AJA and ATTO will get it done.

Fred



The Troupe - Modern Media Design & Production


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Shane Ross
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 8:48:34 pm

Hmmm...could I run my eSATA card in slot 2 and it not interfere with the Kona and the Fibre Card? That'd be cool.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog!


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Fred Connors Jr
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 9:04:50 pm

Shane

The point was that, as of today, the ATTO R30 is not happy in slot 2. Maybe your eSata card is?

Fred

The Troupe - Modern Media Design & Production


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Bob Zelin
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 12:03:40 am

Hi Shane -
I do not know what you are talking about. If you had an OLD Mac Pro (pre Jan 2008), the CORRECT configuration for a system would be the graphics card at x16, slot 2 (unused) at x1, and slot 3 and slot 4 both set to x4. Slot 3 would be your Kona 3, and slot 4 would be your storage card. Let me be more specific for you, as you have a Cal Digit HD Pro. All of these SAS/SATA cards are rated for x8 slots, but perform BEAUTIFULLY at very fast data rates in x4 slots. This is where you put your Cal Digit, Dulce, ATTO, or other SAS/SATA card - be it a NEW or OLD Mac Pro.

If you have a 4 Gig Fibre card, you can ABSOLUELY run it in a x4 lane slot.

So with your NEW MAC Pro, exactly what is your problem. The Kona 3 is NOT running any "slower" than it did before.

Nothing has changed.

bob Zelin




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Shane Ross
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 1:00:25 am

First off, I do not have the HDPro on this system (actually, I don't own an HDPro at all, I just reviewed it)...this is connected to an XSAN. And I wondered about the bus speed as I am getting slower transfer rates than the other machines. 85MB/s opposed to their 110MB/s. And the SAN techs say that my card is running at 2Gbs, not 4Gbs. I know squat about SANs, so I listen to them.

And I am not trying to do anything with the Kona yet, I just heard the tech say that mine was running at half speed.

Whatever...things are working...except for the half speed XSAN connection. But I am still able to work fine, so no complaints. Just curious.


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 1:56:58 am

[Shane Ross] "And the SAN techs say that my card is running at 2Gbs, not 4Gbs. I know squat about SANs, so I listen to them.

And I am not trying to do anything with the Kona yet, I just heard the tech say that mine was running at half speed. "


Yeah, uh huh. Go tell them to tweak the zoning and LUN masking.

Just kidding. I know squat about SAN too.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 2:03:01 am

Hi Shane -
I don't know SAN either, but I do know the Apple XServe RAID, and I do know about it's degraded performance after time. I am assuming (because I don't know your system), but Don't blame the MAC Pro because your Apple XServe RAID is running at a crawling rate of a modern internal SATA drive from Hitachi or Seagate. AS you well know, the Cal Digit HD Pro (although not fibre) runs circles around a primo PROPERLY WORKING Apple XServe RAID (and so do all the other SAS/SATA based products). Your problem is not the MAC Pro. If you don't believe me, plug in another type of external RAID product from ANYONE, and see what I am talking about.

Sorry you are having these troubles (if you DO have the XServe RAID, I assume that you have gone into RAID Admin, and turned off your Cache flushing).

Bob Zelin




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Shane Ross
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 2:17:53 am

The XServe Raid and XSAN is what I have to work with here at the office. 4 edit stations sharing the storage on a series. It works for what we need.

I was provided this link concerning the proper slots for the new and old MacPros. Same rules apply, apparently:

http://www.aja.com/html/support_kona_rec_sys.htm

Recommended slot for the LHe is slot 2, however. Nice to know.


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog!


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Mitch Ives
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 4:08:58 pm

Shane,

I have the same machine. The Apple RAID card is in slot 4, and the Kona 3 is in slot 3. We're saving slot 2 for the HD Pro, as it can benefit from the faster bus speed. I spoke at length with AJA and they confirmed that the Kona card only needs the 4X slot...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro


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Wayne Carey
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 10, 2008 at 5:07:52 pm

Sorry for the sales pitch but...

We currently use the Facilis TerraBlock at our facility and it runs circles above the rest. Yeah, I know that its not a true sharing storage but I'm sure that Facilis is on it.

I can tell you that I have never had a configuration issue that wasn't very easily solved or ANY performance issues of any sort. I've even had our 12D (6 TB) down to less than 20 gig with absolutely no dropped frames. It holds true all every time.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com
http://blogs.creativecow.net/waynecarey


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Dulce Support
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Mar 6, 2008 at 3:37:56 pm

[Shane Ross] "my card is running at 2Gbs, not 4Gbs"

Hi Shane, the 2Gb/4Gb sounds like its related to the Fibre Channel link speed, which is different than the PCIe slot speed of x4/x8/x16 of the Mac Pro, pre Jan 08 or later.

If your Fibre Channel card in the computer is a 4Gb then it should be linked at 4Gb if the other end supports 4Gb. The slot the card is plugged into would not affect the Fibre Channel linked speed.

Depending on the Fibre Channel card, there might be a LED indicator telling of the link speed.

Robert Leong / Dulce Tech Support


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Merete Victor
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Apr 9, 2008 at 3:22:16 pm

Hi,

I can't get audio out to work with Kona3 and Mac Pro (2008).
I have installed the card in slot 3 , installed FCP and then the AJA 5.1 NDD version for OS X 10.5.2.

in both FCP and AJA VTR Xchange capture:
I can capture audio (Embedded,XLR,(have not tried SDI..)
I can monitor the audio through XLR when I capture (ch1-8 + analog )

I can not monitor ch 3 -8 after capture, only ch 1+2 (and the analog..)
In FCP I can see all the channels,and I can route the different channels to ch 1+2 output, so I know that they are not just empty sound files..
I can not see more than ch1+2 in the "audio outputs menu" in FCP, I undestand that it should list all channels in this menu.
I have checked 5.1 surround in user prefference.

In the AJA controlPanel I hvae tried to change the audio input to see if it could have anything to do with the outputs, but still the same...
I can't find any option to audio output other than "Frame buffer or Audio In" in DS Keyer menu.

I have tried installing the driver several times, also tried re-install of OSX (10.5.2)

Tried without the breakout box, just the audio multi-cables, still the same problem.

Since I can hear ch 1-8 from the AJA output(XLR) when I capture (SDI embedded,XLR) I guess the breakout box audio is pass through to the output.

Is it just a setting that I am missing ?
Is the AJA not compatible with 2008 mac Pro ?

Why can't I output all audio channels.....


-merete


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Apr 9, 2008 at 10:00:47 pm

[Merete Victor] "I can capture audio (Embedded,XLR,(have not tried SDI..) "

OK - the Kona 3 card uses 2 different AES connectors - those are not analog XLR's----

"I can not monitor ch 3 -8 after capture, only ch 1+2 (and the analog..) "
Have you set FCP to monitor all of the audio channels? by default it mixes down to stereo.

"I have checked 5.1 surround in user prefference"

FCP DOES NOT support 5.1 surround sound playback at this time. - you can fake it- but true 5.1 is not available.


[Merete Victor] "Why can't I output all audio channels..... "

its just not set up correctly - the application does not configure itself.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Merete Victor
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Apr 10, 2008 at 10:55:45 am

>>>OK - the Kona 3 card uses 2 different AES connectors - those are not analog XLR's----

I know, I have a digital AES/EBU connection..

>>>Have you set FCP to monitor all of the audio channels? by default it mixes down to stereo.

I have figured out how to set FCP to output more than 2 channels : )

...But I need it to work with other software than FCP, I think it is strange that I can't output more than 2 channels with AJA Xchange,VVTR and other software..

I only need a "6-ch" playout software to use in a cinema...
(http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/98/869639)





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Andrew Crosby
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008)
on Jun 6, 2008 at 7:22:54 pm

Hey there,
I just got a new Mac Pro with the Kona 3 card and I have been experiencing a few oddities. The doesn't happen all the time, but for some reason FCP will output audio from Line out fine, but through the Kona 3 it has a pitch change (sounds like it's slowed down) and is out of sync with the video. It seems to fix itself after a reboot. I was not happy with this temporary solution so I contacted AJA support via email and this is what they responded with...

"Hi Andy,

Go to about this mac -> more info -> hardware -> model ID (line 2).
If your Mac pro is a v1.1. or v2.1 then:

1) Install the Kona 3 in slot-3.
2) Go to: /system/library/core services/ and run the expansion slot utility.
a) configure the PCIe slot for 16:1:4:4 (option 2).
b) Reboot

If your Mac Pro is a v3.x then install the Kona 3 in slot 2.

Let us know if you need more help.
Thanks"

So I am right about to switch the card slot because it looks like it was installed in slot 3 instead of slot 2 (and my version is 3.1)...now correct me if I'm wrong but the slots are numbered from the bottom up? Like this...

4
3
2
1

?? Maybe it's labeled inside, I haven't taken the computer apart yet. But hopefully this will fix the problem. It sounds like a few others are having similar problems. Thought I'd share my 2 cents.

-Andy

--------------

Andrew Crosby

Video Editor




"Insert something witty here"


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Andrew Crosby
Re: Kona 3 and the NEW MacPros (Jan 2008) FIXED
on Jun 11, 2008 at 9:56:26 pm

Hey guys,
So switching the Kona card to PCI/E slot #2 worked. I haven't had any more problems thus far. Hope you guys find the same blissfulness by switching PCI/E slots as I did.



--------------

Andrew Crosby

Video Editor




"Insert something witty here"


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