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weevie833
XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 20, 2008 at 5:24:54 pm

This is more of an Apple Discussions or hddguru.com question but I've received no answer from either on my posts, so....

I've looked in the archives but nothing specifically addresses the model I own or the IDE sled compatibility concerns.

Looking to replace the 14 IDE Hitachi Deskstar 180 GB OEM drives on my Apple XServe RAID (2003 model A1009, firmware 1.5.1) with Seagate ST375064A 750 GB IDE drives using the same IDE sleds. In speaking with both Seagate tech and Apple tech, the only difference I can discern between the natively installed Seagate firmware, and the firmware Apple flashes into their "blessed" Seagate 750 GB drives is the diagnostic capabilities you can get in RAID Admin with Apple's drives versus Seagate's, such as usage hours, etc.

Is this true? Are there more things Apple does with their firmware that would affect its functionality or longterm integrity in an Apple XServe RAID?

Apple charges a much higher price for essentially nothing that I can see of any value, unless you guys can tell me otherwise.

Anything else I should know about the Seagate ST375064A 750 IDE drives before I go buy 16 of them [14 + 2 spares]?

Thanks - Steve


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John Christie
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 21, 2008 at 2:22:57 am

I'm by no means an expert on the subject but two years ago we replaced all our 180 and 250 drives with off the shelf 400s. Haven't had a problem since. I'm thinking of doing the same with 750s when I merge three buildings worth of storage into one. I currently have 5 Xserve raids with 750s and 3 raids with 400s. I'm looking forward to having 8 raids all loaded up with 750 drives.

Cheers

John Christie





Keyframes Editing



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Steve Covello
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 21, 2008 at 1:38:45 pm

Thanks for the reply.

Can you tell me if any of your XServe RAIDs are the IDE version rather than the SATA version? I'm making the leap to think that the SATA upgrade process would be less of a big since the SATA technology is already more advanced.

Given that you mention 180 gb's, I am guessing you have the IDE drives.

How long did it take to format?

thx - steve

Steve Covello
double wide post


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Eric Hansen
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 21, 2008 at 8:26:48 pm

There is no SATA version of the Xserve RAID (yet). the Xserves are SATA, but the RAIDs are not.

4 G5s, OSx 10.4.10, Final Cut 6.0.1, Kona LH
Xsan: Xserve 2.0 G5, 3GB RAM, 2 7TB Xserve RAIDs, Sanbox 5200
Quantum SDLT600A
decks: Sony HDW-M2000/10 HDCAM, HVR-M10U HDV with HD-Connect, DSR-1500 DVCAM, UVW-1800 BetacamSP
MacBook Pro: 2.33, 2GB RAM, OSx 10.4.10, Final Cut 6.0.1
cameras: Sony FX1 and A1U, Arri S/B 16mm
skis: Volkl Gotama 183s with 914s and Lange Fluid 120 boots


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John Christie
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 21, 2008 at 10:45:16 pm

Hi Steve

Eric is correct about the ATA vs SATA. The formatting takes several days. You can use the RAID in the meantime, but you won't get a lot of performance out of it.

Cheers

John Christie




Keyframes Editing



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Steve Covello
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 21, 2008 at 11:05:35 pm

What I meant was the sleds where each drive is inserted -- they can be either. I am referring only to the drive/sled module -- in this case, IDE/PATA, not the means of connecting to the desktop.

Steve

Steve Covello
double wide post


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John Christie
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 21, 2008 at 11:09:40 pm

The sleds on the Xserve raids are ATA as are the drives. The sleds on the Xserves are now SATA but are not interchangeable with the Xserve Raid sleds. You remove the 180s from the sleds and replace them with 750s

Cheers

John Christie




Keyframes Editing



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john gyldstrand
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 23, 2008 at 1:23:37 am

contact me if you need a source for drives great pricing and excellent customer service.



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Dennis Drooger
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Feb 25, 2009 at 7:24:31 pm

Hi I noticed you mentioned you have a source for Xserver RAID drives. I have one bank that I would like to fill. Any information you could provide would be appreciated.



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john gyldstrand
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Feb 25, 2009 at 8:21:24 pm

Dennis,I no longer have the 750 gb IDE drives they have become all but impossible to obtain. Sorry JG.



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john gyldstrand
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 23, 2008 at 2:00:51 am

Just an fyi all IDE/pata drives are being discontinued,if you need a source for drives with great pricing and excellent customer service contact me.



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Eric Hansen
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 23, 2008 at 2:32:51 am

where did you hear that IDE drives are being discontinued? with the massive installed based of computers that still use IDE drives (including 75% of my office computers), i have a hard time believing that. yes they are on their way out, but i bet drives and deals on those drives will be available for a long time.

e

4 G5s, OSx 10.4.10, Final Cut 6.0.1, Kona LH
Xsan: Xserve 2.0 G5, 3GB RAM, 2 7TB Xserve RAIDs, Sanbox 5200
Quantum SDLT600A
decks: Sony HDW-M2000/10 HDCAM, HVR-M10U HDV with HD-Connect, DSR-1500 DVCAM, UVW-1800 BetacamSP
MacBook Pro: 2.33, 2GB RAM, OSx 10.4.10, Final Cut 6.0.1
cameras: Sony FX1 and A1U, Arri S/B 16mm
skis: Volkl Gotama 183s with 914s and Lange Fluid 120 boots


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Matthew Welch
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2008 at 4:22:50 am

Hello

So happy to have found your post.

I have Xraid 1st gen., with 14 - 180gb IDE drives

Need more space and can't afford to upgrade to a new Xraid.

I planned to get the Seagate 750gb 7200.10 IDE drives.

Have either of you done this swap yet with Gen 1 IDE (ATA 100) drives, Not Gen 2 (ATA 133) Drives?

Would love to know what I will be sacraficing other than SMART from apple firmware... does any other info come up in the Xraid Admin? Also is there anything to know about firmware, etc. before the upgrade?

I have found the Apple Board relatively useless, so I am scouring the web as I run my own business and manage all the machines, so I need some help!!!

One idea was to swap out one bank first and run it for a while, then swap out the other 7 drives... any downside to this?

Thanks for any info before I drop cash on the drives, to find out the hard way!

Thanks again.



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John Christie
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2008 at 6:27:32 pm

Mathew

My understanding is that 133 ATA drives are backwards compatible with 100 ATA drives. If your drives are configured as 2 separate volumes you can pull all the drives on one side and do a test using just one new drive. Power down the raid and remove all 7 drives from one side and label them so you know what order they were in. If both sides are raided together as one drive, you will need to remove all 14 drives to try this test. If Xserve Raid utility let's you format and use the one drive, it will should remain happy when you add all 14. You may also need to run a firmware upgrade to enable the controllers to see larger drives, do this before you experiment with new drives.

WARNING, I am not an expert at this, and what I am recommending SHOULD work. Make sure you have no vital data on your Xserve raid before you start mucking around with it.

Cheers

John Christie


Keyframes Editing



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Eric Hansen
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2008 at 6:33:20 pm

if you are running an Xsan, i would suggest replacing the 2 drives that the SAN uses for metadata. then you can get your answer on whether or not this works, and you wont lose any of your data. but this is only if you're running an Xsan.

e

4 G5s, OSx 10.4.10, Final Cut 6.0.1, Kona LH
Xsan: Xserve 2.0 G5, 3GB RAM, 2 7TB Xserve RAIDs, Sanbox 5200
Quantum SDLT600A
decks: Sony HDW-M2000/10 HDCAM, HVR-M10U HDV with HD-Connect, DSR-1500 DVCAM, UVW-1800 BetacamSP
MacBook Pro: 2.33, 2GB RAM, OSx 10.4.10, Final Cut 6.0.1
cameras: Sony FX1 and A1U, Arri S/B 16mm
skis: Volkl Gotama 183s with 914s and Lange Fluid 120 boots


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John Christie
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2008 at 10:35:59 pm

Eric

I don't think you can replace the drives that are storing the metadata. I wouldn't do any testing involving the metadata drives, too scary!!

Cheers

John Christie


Keyframes Editing



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Matthew Welch
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2008 at 10:55:31 pm

Mine is a stand alone Xraid... 1st generation. 180 gb IDE drives.

I can not find any of the more robust "NS" IDE drives from Seagate, the best I have found is the 7200.10 series, 750gb. Any other thoughts on drives? I was sticking to these as they are the equivalent of the Apple drives, just not "blessed and flashed".

I figure I will pull all the 180's in one bank, carefully remove and store (after I back up the volume), then put in the 750's and format... put it into use and see what happens???

I have seen other threads where people have done this and they state everything is running fine.

I plan to insure myself by formating 6 drives and leaving the 7th as a hot spare, so if I get a failure early on it will re-build... also plan to have a second spare on standby (not hot).

I am running Raid Admin 1.5.1, so in theory, I should not have trouble recognizing the drives.

Any other ideas / cautions / thoughts?






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Eric Hansen
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2008 at 11:02:44 pm

sounds like you have your bases covered and i'm eagerly waiting to hear your results.

good luck.

e

4 G5s, OSx 10.4.11, Final Cut 6.0.2, Kona LH (v5.1)
Xsan: Xserve 2.0 G5, 3GB RAM, 2 7TB Xserve RAIDs, Sanbox 5200
Quantum SDLT600A
decks: Sony HDW-M2000/10 HDCAM, HVR-M10U HDV with HD-Connect, DSR-1500 DVCAM, UVW-1800 BetacamSP
MacBook Pro: 2.33, 2GB RAM, OSx 10.4.11, Final Cut 6.0.2
cameras: Sony FX1 and A1U, Arri S/B 16mm
skis: Volkl Gotama 183s with 914s and Lange Fluid 120 boots


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Matthew Welch
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 29, 2008 at 4:14:25 am

Mine is a stand alone Xraid... 1st generation. 180 gb IDE drives.

I can not find any of the more robust "NS" IDE drives from Seagate, the best I have found is the 7200.10 series, 750gb. Any other thoughts on drives? I was sticking to these as they are the equivalent of the Apple drives, just not "blessed and flashed".

I figure I will pull all the 180's in one bank, carefully remove and store (after I back up the volume), then put in the 750's and format... put it into use and see what happens???

I have seen other threads where people have done this and they state everything is running fine.

I plan to insure myself by formating 6 drives and leaving the 7th as a hot spare, so if I get a failure early on it will re-build... also plan to have a second spare on standby (not hot).

I am running Raid Admin 1.5.1, so in theory, I should not have trouble recognizing the drives.

Any other ideas / cautions / thoughts?






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Matthew Welch
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 31, 2008 at 7:41:19 pm

Are you guys running your Xraid under 10.5? I have upgraded and have not been able to get the drives to mount, the machine crashes on mount. Works fine in 10.4. Thoughts??



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Clemens Schweder
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Feb 22, 2008 at 4:24:20 pm

Hi Guys,

can tell me anyone how to get it work with this Seagate Drives.
I found nothing else.

I'm using a Xserve RAID from 2003 with at the moment 14 Hitachi Deskstar 180 GB Drives which come directly from Apple.

Now we ordered a few ST750640A p-ATA Drives with Firmware 3.AAE.

Over RAID-Admin i can create an Array of the discs but can't see them in Disc-Utility.
In System-Profiler the Xserve RAID is known.

I use a G4 Xserve but it didn't worked in an G5 Xserve too.

Any ideas??

--


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Eric Hansen
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Feb 22, 2008 at 5:41:31 pm

i am not 100% on this because it's been awhile since i've setup an array, but i believe that Disk Utility can't see the individual drives, only the LUNs once they are created in RAID Admin. so go ahead and create the array and see if everything works.

i can't comment on the firmware version, or if all the hard drive monitoring tools will work, because i havent tried this swap out yet. but you should be able to create the LUNs just fine.

since Apple discontinued the Xserve RAID, i'm sure i'll be in this hard drive swapping boat with you soon.

btw, also make sure that you are running the latest RAID firmware and Xsan 1.4.2 if you're creating LUNs over 2TB in size.

e

4 G5s, OSx 10.4.11, Final Cut 6.0.2, Kona LH (v5.1)
Xsan: Xserve 2.0 G5, 3GB RAM, 2 7TB Xserve RAIDs, Sanbox 5200
Quantum SDLT600A
decks: Sony HDW-M2000/10 HDCAM, HVR-M10U HDV with HD-Connect, DSR-1500 DVCAM, UVW-1800 BetacamSP
MacBook Pro: 2.33, 2GB RAM, OSx 10.4.11, Final Cut 6.0.2
cameras: Panasonic HVX200, Sony FX1 and A1U, Arri S/B 16mm
skis: Volkl Gotama 183s with 914s and Lange Fluid 120 boots


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Clemens Schweder
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Feb 25, 2008 at 9:54:29 am

Dear Eric,

you pointed me to something.The LUNs.

That is the problem. I resolved it.

So Apple removed the LUN Masking in the 1.5.1 RAID-ADMIN.
In the 1.5 RAID-Admin they are still present.

The trick is to go with the the RAID-Admin 1.5 into LUN Masking under extented and disable the LUN-Masking.

Than Restart the RAID and the Host-System and viola
i can see the RAID in Disc-Utility. And i can format them and it works.

Thanks Guys

So the bought Seagate 750 GB ST750640A are working on (they do not come frome Apple) a Xserve RAID 2003 as a RAID 5 with the amount of 3,4 TB of Space on a Xserve G4 !! I configured 6 Drives with RAID 5 it takes about 70 Hours to create the array.

It's described in the Apple Discussions


--


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Tom Bevington
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jun 19, 2008 at 3:42:06 pm

Great and helpful series of posts....

Just bought a G4 Xserve with two 60GB drives (Seagate Barracuda ATA V types - model ST3600015A) and two empty drive tray slots for $100.

I'm new to Mac server hardware and my jaw dropped when I saw what Apple wants for drives.

I'm trying to locate a source of two empty drive sleds into which I can put some newer, high-capacity drives.

I'm thinking if I can put 4 new 250 to 750 GB drives into this old G4 it could be a great platform for a home media server and content mgmt system I've been wanting to build - especially if the four drives were RAID-ed.

Any suggestions/hints on where I can obtain inexpensive drive sleds, and instructions on locating/installing/configuring newer/compatible non-Apple drives would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

Tom
tcb@hughes.net
951.776.0398



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Joe Novello
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2009 at 5:49:37 pm

John,

Been reading the thread re: upgrading XRAID to 750GB drives.
In September, I bought a Seagate SEAST3750640A, thinking I'd do a test. Then it turned out I had to keep my XRAID going until I finished a project - last month. Now, I've realizedI did a dumb thing buying only 1... because I need a minimum of 2 matched drives to make a Volume. I haven't been able to find another matching drive - very scarce - OWC is backordered and the price jumped up $100! So, if you've got access to more 750s, I'm interested, if not, I've got one to sell.





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John Christie
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2009 at 7:39:06 pm

Hi Joe

We stocked up on 750s a while ago when we heard that IDE drives were being phased out. I'd look at buying a bunch if you can find them to squeeze a few more years out of your Xserve raid.

Cheers

John C


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joe Novello
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2009 at 9:04:08 pm

John,

Thanks, for the feedback. I be interested in buying 1 from you for now if your willing to part with one.
BTW, it sounds as if you, like us, are trying to keep your investment in XRAID running longer.

We're on XSAN 1 and I'm another of those angry users who can't believe Apple want's to hit us for another $1G per seat to upgrade to XSAN 2.

We're running FCP with 10.4.11 right now and considering an upgrade to XServe Leopard, upgrading the clients to Leopard and staying with XSAN 1.4. But I'm hesitant after reading all the posts and still being unable to get a good fix on it. Got any wisdom you can share?

Joe N





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john gyldstrand
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jan 28, 2009 at 10:53:17 pm

Joe,
This is a very hard drive to find anymore you may just have to go online, I have a half dozen ST3500630A's 500 GB's if your interested. Sorry I could not be of assistance on the 750. Let me know if you need help with anything else.
Cheers
John G



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Phil Goldsmith
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Apr 16, 2009 at 7:30:24 pm

We have brand new and ex-demo (< 750hrs) original Apple 750Gb drives in carriers - have about 100 of each http://www.scrumpymacs.co.uk



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roger thomas
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on May 2, 2009 at 10:53:53 pm

check on ebay for new seagate 750gb IDE PATA drives

search

750gb IDE pata

good luck


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Dennis Rosenblatt
Re: XServe RAID upgrade to 750GB drives
on Jul 29, 2009 at 1:33:21 am

please email me about pricing and avail for xserve replacement drives.
thanks!
dr
nearlyfamous@mac.com



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