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444 Output problem.

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Tyler Dixon
444 Output problem.
on Dec 19, 2007 at 2:31:23 am

So, I'm trying to output 444 footage through edit-to-tape in FCP. I've got it set up correctly in Final Cut, have DL out set up in Kona 3, and I'm going DL into an SRW-5500. I understand there was some sort of board that was required for the 5500 to be able to play and record in 444, and when I called a guy at the place we got the deck from, he said it was already installed. I have the cables set up in the "A" and "B" slot right below it in HDSDI In on the deck, by the way, as per his instruction. I've also tried other slots. ANYWAY, the problem is that the signal doesn't seem to be coming through correctly, and I'm not sure if the problem lies in FCP, the Kona, or the deck itself. When I go through edit-to-tape as I normally do, with everything set correctly, the footage in the preview window on my monitor looks fine, but in the little monitor on the deck, I can see that the image is screwed up; I can hardly make out anything, and it's all green and fuzzy, similar to what it looks like when you try to do 444 but don't have DL set up, except it's green. (I think it's pink/red when you try to do that.) I've tried everything I can think of, and rechecked all the connections multiple times. Everything is fine. My gut tells that something is messing up in the kona, because everyone keeps insisting that the deck should work, but I'm not sure. Can anybody help? Thanks, and sorry for the long post.


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Bob Zelin
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 19, 2007 at 2:52:57 am

I cannot answer your question, however I can tell you one thing. The Sony SRW-5500 is like operating a nuclear submarine. It ain't no Beta UVW-1800. There are MILLIONS of menus, and if they are not set correctly (like to use the dual link input), it aint' gonna work.

Either call your rental house, or call Sony Broadcast in NJ for support. It's easy to blame AJA, since there is a forum right here, but the SRW-5500 is a BITCH.

Bob Zelin


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gary adcock
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 19, 2007 at 4:42:22 pm

[Tyler Dixon] " I have the cables set up in the "A" and "B" slot right below it in HDSDI In on the deck, by the way, as per his instruction. I've also tried other slots. ANYWAY, the problem is that the signal doesn't seem to be coming through correctly, and I'm not sure if the problem lies in FCP, the Kona, or the deck itself."

I am with Bob on this- it sounds more like operator error than anything else.

Questions:
did the footage originate as Dual Link RGB?
how are you monitoring the RGB / DL signal?
what does the signal out of the deck look like ( it should match the display panel)
is the DL correctly setup in the Kona Control Panel ( you need to tell it to output DL content)
is the 5500 deck correctly set up for DL input and output? , the Correct Frame Rate?
Are you using the correct tape stock.









gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Tyler Dixon
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 20, 2007 at 12:45:40 am

Yes to all your questions. The signal out of the deck looks like it does on the display when I'm going out of the deck, but I'm not going out of the deck, I'm going into it. I'm looking at the signal on the deck monitor and my display itself. Everything on the Kona panel is set correctly, and I have 444 and the correct framerate set on the deck. One thing I forgot to mention is that when I'm going into the deck, if the image is still, as in not playing, it will match that of my display. But when I start to play it, the image on the deck becomes green and fuzzy. I can get it to work fine the other way (i.e. captruing 444 from the deck).


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Paul Provost
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 20, 2007 at 2:17:59 am

have you tried just recording anyway and then monitor playback out of the deck? just to make sure it isn't an issue with the little monitor on the deck? Like Bob said, the menus on these decks are unbelievably complex and unless every single one is set correctly for the particular job you are trying to do you are screwed. every input, output, framerate, sync, etc has to be right. btw this isn't a sync gen problem is it? all the settings on the K3 has to match as well...


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Christopher Tay
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 20, 2007 at 2:30:54 am

If your video monitor has dual link 444 input, you can at least determine that the dual link 444 output from the K3 is ok. If the K3 output is ok, then it is definitely the setting in the SR deck.

-chrispy



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Tyler Dixon
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 20, 2007 at 3:58:58 am

[Christopher Tay] "If your video monitor has dual link 444 input, you can at least determine that the dual link 444 output from the K3 is ok. If the K3 output is ok, then it is definitely the setting in the SR deck. "

Hmm. I'm using the JVC DT-V24L1DU as my monitor. It has two HDSDI inputs, and I've got DL plugged in from the Kona (with DL out set in the panel). I can see the image on the monitor, but it's green, like it's only getting half the signal. There's a button on the front that let's me switch between input 1 and 2, but it doesn't seem to work with both at the same time. It seems like it should work like the Kona box, where it recognizes both the inputs at once, since there are two inputs. I'm not really sure if it's because the monitor can't do it, or a problem with a 444 signal going out of the Kona (since the incoming 444 works fine on the Kona).


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Tyler Dixon
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 20, 2007 at 2:34:33 am

Yeah, I've tried playback in FCP. It's still messed up. According to the manuel for the deck, there's only one setting for 444, and it's already set correctly.


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gary adcock
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 20, 2007 at 2:58:14 pm

[Tyler Dixon] "According to the manuel for the deck, there's only one setting for 444, and it's already set correctly. "

that would be incorrect, there are at least 5 setting for DL.
are you sure the frame rate is correct?
23.98, 24 or 25 fps?


that Green color on your JVC monitor is due to that device only being able to do single link monitoring and thats all you are seeing --one channel of the 4:4:4 stream.






gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Jeremy Newmark
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 20, 2007 at 4:09:43 pm

[Tyler Dixon] "One thing I forgot to mention is that when I'm going into the deck, if the image is still, as in not playing, it will match that of my display. But when I start to play it, the image on the deck becomes green and fuzzy."

If it's updating the image and displaying it properly on the deck monitor when playback is stopped and then goes fuzzy and green when you try to playback, then it sounds like your FCP playback settings are not the same as your Kona 3 settings. Make sure that your output playback settings in FCP exactly match your Kona 3.

best regards,
jeremy


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Tyler Dixon
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 21, 2007 at 1:28:19 am

[Jeremy Newmark] "If it's updating the image and displaying it properly on the deck monitor when playback is stopped and then goes fuzzy and green when you try to playback, then it sounds like your FCP playback settings are not the same as your Kona 3 settings. Make sure that your output playback settings in FCP exactly match your Kona 3. "

Yes, the settings match.

Also, to Gary: I do have the image playing on my monitor, but I don't think I can close the log and capture window (where the video is also playing) on my desktop without stopping the capture.



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Tyler Dixon
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 29, 2007 at 4:23:52 am

I've just noticed something that may be a bit off. The easy setup I'm using in Final Cut is "AJA Kona 3- 1080psf 23.98 DL 10 bit Uncompressed RGB." Both Sequence and Capture preset are listed as "1080psf 23.98 10 bit RGB" but the Playback output only says "1080psf 23.98 10 bit." It doesn't say anything about RGB. I've looked at the pull-down list in A/V settings, but there's nothing that says exactly "1080psf 23.98 10 bit RGB" for Playback Output. Is there supposed to be one, or am I already using the right thing? If it turns out to be this, I'm going to feel like a damned fool....


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gary adcock
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 20, 2007 at 6:20:44 pm

[Tyler Dixon] " One thing I forgot to mention is that when I'm going into the deck, if the image is still, as in not playing,"

What?

You Should NEVER have the video running on your desktop when outputting 4;4:4 content,

thats what production monitors are for.


That preview would suck the life out of your system, often to the point of not being able to playout without dropping frames.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Christopher Tay
Re: 444 Output problem.
on Dec 21, 2007 at 9:16:00 am

The JVC HD LCD monitor you're using does not support dual link 444 so what you're seeing is only one side of the dual link 444 output from the Kona 3. I just check the specs and it doesn't even offer dual link 444 as an option.

If you really need dual link 444 monitoring, check out the TVLogic series. They're pretty decent.

-chrispy



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