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please test this project for me (its very small!)

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mark palmos
please test this project for me (its very small!)
on Dec 18, 2007 at 1:45:06 pm

Hello all
After days of trying to get to the bottom of this weird, unworkable Leopard/Motion/Kona problem I have been having, I have found.

1/ it has nothing to do with plugins
2/ it has nothing to do with corrupt projects or projects created in Tiger
3/ it definitely is related to Motion projects in FCP
4/ it is definitely related to Leopard and not to Tiger
5/ it is strongly related to Kona drivers being installed, but not totally related. (this project was tested looping for 15 mins with no crashes with Kona drivers uninstalled and crashes within a minute every time with the drivers installed)

Here is a new FCP project into which I loaded 4 Apple Motion templates via the Viewer. There are no other assets and this project causes FCP to freeze every time it is played.

Please would you try this project to see if you get the same problems. Of course you must be on Leopard and also using Kona v5 (preferably with Lhe) with all the latest Apple updates. http://www.finalcutpro.tv/crashtest.zip


I would very much like to find out if it is my computer or an incompatibility bug.

Thanks very much,
Mark.


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gary adcock
Re: please test this project for me (its very small!)
on Dec 18, 2007 at 5:29:54 pm

[mark palmos] "I would very much like to find out if it is my computer or an incompatibility bug. "

Mark

I never saw you mention using Motion in your posts prior to this, my apologies if you have.

this failure is a MOTION issue, and the additional Kona Card is confusing the OS
FCS 2 had an issue were it would not load with a kona card installed since it was not optimized for openGL ( and what video card would be, mind you)

off the top of my head I am going to guess that you are using the stock graphics card in your machine and not one optimized for the GPU needs of Motion or Color.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Mark Palmos
Re: please test this project for me (its very small!)
on Dec 18, 2007 at 6:16:52 pm

Hi Gary

Thanks for the response. Did you try opening the project, did it work ok? My fist post does mention Motion a few times.

Im not sure what you mean by "Additional Kona card is confusing the OS". I only have one Kona card, the LHe.

I am using the ATI 1900 graphics card, not the standard Macpro one (the 1900 runs fine with Tiger)

Thanks,
Please let me know how you do with the simple project I uploaded,

Mark.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: please test this project for me (its very small!)
on Dec 18, 2007 at 8:46:25 pm

Hey Mark,

Since it opened and played just fine on my machine running under Tiger maybe there's a lesson to be learned... Of course, I know you've always been a bleeding edge jinda guy. so...

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.


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mark palmos
Re: please test this project for me (its very small!)
on Dec 19, 2007 at 4:32:25 pm

david old buddy, yes, you know i cant resist the bleeding edge, but i thought i was playing it safe, even waited two months for apple to release 6.02... and there i was thinking i was being very responsible, reasonable, patient...
leopard is largely to be able to have access to xp and apps which i cannot replace on osx.
later g_fella
mark.


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gary adcock
Re: please test this project for me (its very small!)
on Dec 18, 2007 at 9:05:00 pm

[Mark Palmos] " Did you try opening the project, did it work ok?"

I am not near my PAL machine until later today, I did grab it for testing, I opened it just to check it on my laptop without any issue (most current everything)



[Mark Palmos] "Im not sure what you mean by "Additional Kona card is confusing the OS""

During the install of FCS2 on some machines NOT running the 1900xt- the Kona Card was being id'd to the systems as a non- compliant graphics card < not as the Video card it is>:

this has caused some unstably ( found out after the fact)

I will look at this tonight, all of my desktops are currently able to run both OS versions so I will try to see if I can replicate your issue, since you are one of the few people with problems that gives really descriptive notes on issues and avenues of deduction.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Mark Palmos
Re: please test this project for me (its very small!)
on Dec 19, 2007 at 8:55:01 am

Thanks very much Gary, id love to know if it works for you...
and gotcha on the card issue.
Speak soon,
Mark


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gary adcock
Re: please test this project for me (its very small!)
on Dec 19, 2007 at 5:16:12 pm

[Mark Palmos] "Thanks very much Gary, id love to know if it works for you...
"


Mark

I tried the project you sent on a Kona 3 ( intel) and my LHE ( dual 2.7 G5)
under 10.5.1/ FCP 6.02, QT7.3 kona 5.0 driver and I cannot get it it fail on me.

what does AJA tech support say?




Suggestions from the Apple Trainers list include:


- If you have an I/O card, take care about it's drivers. Motion can work sending the output to an I/O video card, but as you can imagine, this needs the card to full support your Apple OS and Motion version.

- Do you have "extra" codecs in the quicktime directory? I have seen a couple of times that if you install/DragAndDrop codecs for quictime, it does not mean that they can be fully spported. Try to take a look on a fresh installed machine to the following directory : /MacintoshHD/Library/Quicktime and erase any driver that does not come with Apple on the machines in which motion does not work. If this works, try to install later any drivers you need one by one, so you can see which one is causing the problem.

- Take a look at updates. Sorry if you know this, but if you see a ProApplicationSupport update, there will be some more concerning FCS aplications, once it's installed.


gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Mark Palmos
Aja managed to duplicate the issue!
on Dec 19, 2007 at 10:43:07 pm

[gary adcock] "I tried the project you sent on a Kona 3 ( intel) and my LHE ( dual 2.7 G5)
under 10.5.1/ FCP 6.02, QT7.3 kona 5.0 driver and I cannot get it it fail on me."


Hi Gary,
Thats very strange and interesting because Aja emailed today to say they have repicated the FCP freeze - so it is definitely a bug that needs ironing out, but it seems one that is not consistent. I wonder what variables might be at play.

Do you have 8 core, ATI 1900 ?

Off topic, I saw your profile, youve LIVED in all those places? If so, you are worse than me!

Catcha later mate
Mark.


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gary adcock
Re: Aja managed to duplicate the issue!
on Dec 20, 2007 at 2:52:39 pm

[Mark Palmos] "Do you have 8 core, ATI 1900 ?"

No, intel quad with 7300, so it may be something with the graphics card...

so it may be that....




"Off topic, I saw your profile, youve LIVED in all those places? If so, you are worse than me! "

those are the places I have current jobs at, (add Dubai, Kuwait City and Shanghai to that list this year) I have lived many more places than that list would indicate.

I am grateful that I get to travel so much (around 183,000 air miles in 2008) but that is what being a consultant is all about. It does not hurt that I understand PAL and the dollar is at all time lows.


gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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mark palmos
Re: Aja managed to duplicate the issue!
on Dec 20, 2007 at 3:04:52 pm

Hi Gary
yep, perhaps its gfx... maybe the ATI card needs an update, I know when i was on PC there would be regular updates for the display adapters, and since being on mac i have not seen one being offered automatically and apple do quite a job removing the ATI control panel from the user. Perhaps i should go to the ATI Site and check it out manually.

i certainly havent travelled as much as you, but have lived in over 30 homes, three continents and am married to my 3rd wife... oh, and went from dicreet edit to premier pro to fcp all in the last 5 years. cha cha cha changes... im sure that australian grass is greener? cerainly looks that way from here...


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Sam Zimman
Re: Aja managed to duplicate the issue!
on Dec 20, 2007 at 5:06:08 pm

Although it is not exactly the same, I have issues with my ATI X1900 and Motion on my Dual Core 2.3 G5. I've go so far as to reinstall my Geforce 6600, so if there is an issue I can just switch video cards and key working. One monitor is hooked up to the ATI and one to the Nvidia. If the ATI starts giving out to me I just open system preference and switch which monitor has the menu bar and the problem is solved. It's a sucky work around, but it does prove that there is something up with ATI cards and Motion.


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Mark Palmos
Re: Aja managed to duplicate the issue!
on Dec 20, 2007 at 7:01:43 pm

Hi Sam
Thats interesting because the Aja guys emailed again today after my speculation about the graphics card and they had the issue using an Nvida card and Io HD... so this particular issue must be something else, though yours may be the card?
till later
Mark.


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Sam Zimman
Re: Aja managed to duplicate the issue!
on Dec 20, 2007 at 7:11:44 pm

I think in general Motion has issues with certain graphics cards, and possibly peripherals. My problem has to deal with 3rd party effects, your might have to do with a 3rd party output device. Eh, what are you going to do? All we can do is flag the problems and home Apple fixes them in the next update.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Aja managed to duplicate the issue!
on Dec 20, 2007 at 11:13:53 pm

There's a firmware update to the ATI X1900 card that someone on the cow clued me in to a while back:

Try this


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Mark Palmos
Re: Aja managed to duplicate the issue!
on Dec 20, 2007 at 11:26:42 pm

Thanks Jeremy, i will try that after xmas... The guys at kona dont seem to think it is display card related, but im up for giving it a go... tx mate, mark.


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