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LHe & pulldown removal

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jsettl
LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 14, 2007 at 8:08:42 pm

I'm capturing 1080i/59.94 material shot at 24p on an HDX900P. I'm using a Panasonic HD1200A deck and a Kona LHe.

I haven't figured out any way for the Kona to remove the pulldown as I capture so that I bring the clips in at 23.98. Is this possible, and, if so, how?

Thanks,

Jim


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Bob Zelin
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 14, 2007 at 8:20:19 pm

and what is wrong with capturing at 1080i/59.94 ? You can edit beautifully this way with material shot at 23.98 on the HDX900. This is a normal workflow.

Bob Zelin


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jsettl
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 14, 2007 at 8:28:27 pm

The producer plans to broadcast this AND go out to film. Everyone I've talked to said it's easier to edit on a 23.98 timeline and then add pulldown to make a broadcast master.

But hey, the more research I do, the dumber I feel, so I'm still open to wise advice!


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evanmcintosh
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 14, 2007 at 8:28:59 pm

The best way is to switch the 1200A deck to 23/24 System Frequency in the menu (#25). This will convert the output to 23.98psf, so you can use a 1080/23.98 psf preset in FCP.

Alternatively, you could have Kona remove the pulldown directly. However, the process is somewhat convoluted. I describe how to do this in the post below (note that I'm using Kona 3 which might be different than the LH):
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/120/858744

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 14, 2007 at 8:53:51 pm

And to add to evan's post, even if you footage was shot 24p or 24pA it will remove the pulldown either way.

Jeremy


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jsettl
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 15, 2007 at 3:40:20 am

Evan, thanks for this suggestion, but I tried this yesterday with no success.

I'm guessing you need a tri-sync generator as reference to do this? If not, maybe I still have a setting wrong somewhere.


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Evan McIntosh
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 15, 2007 at 7:30:59 am

It should be pretty straightforward. I am using the 1400 deck, and this works. Perhaps conversion on the 1200 is only for 720p24 -> 1080psf24 (the HDX didn't exist when the 1200 was released)?

Here's the rundown anyway:
1. Go to item 25 in the deck's menu (System Frequency). Choose 23/24. This will configure deck to spit out 1080psf.
2. Choose Kona capture preset in FCP - 1080psf 23.98 DVCPROHD
3. Verify you have an image and capture.
You should not need a tri-level sync generator.

Did you try the other suggestion of having the Kona remove the pulldown? It is imperative that the deck control offset be properly configured and you manually make sure each in-point lands on a multiple of 05 frame. I have a Kona LH on the way, so might be able to test this late next week.

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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Evan McIntosh
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 15, 2007 at 7:38:16 am

> 1. Go to item 25 in the deck's menu (System Frequency). Choose 23/24.
> This will configure deck to spit out 1080psf.

Also, reboot the deck after this is set.
Evan


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jsettl
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 15, 2007 at 6:50:33 pm

Evan:

I've tried this, but the video that is displayed in the Log and Capture window as well as what's captured is gobble-de-gook. I also get a flashing Stop button on the 1200 deck, and the Kona's Genlock is an angry red. That's why I figured I needed a different sync generator.

The Kona indicates that it's getting 1080sf23.98, so it's happy with that, but the sync reference still seems to be an issue.

I wish I had time to wait for you to get your LH, but I have to move on with this project. I'd still appreciate hearing from you with anything you learn once you get your new hardware.

Thanks for your suggestions, and if you think of anything else, let me know!

Jim


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Evan McIntosh
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 15, 2007 at 11:39:01 pm

A few things:

- Try disconnecting sync (and any other inputs) and setting the Kona to internal sync. It shouldn't matter (the Kona normally locks to the input), but it's worth a shot.
- Be absolutely sure you choose the 1080psf 23.98 preset, not 1080p 23.98 (there are both).
-If you have a 720p24 tape lying around, try this same method. 720->1080psf/24 is definitely a feature of the 1200 deck, whereas 1080p over i->1080psf might not be (I use the 1400)
-If you use the alternate method where the Kona actually removes the pulldown (the one I gave a link to earlier), the deck should be in the standard 59/60 mode. You have to create a new capture preset based on 1080i29.97 DVCPRO HD. Keep the Digitizer as Kona 1080i29.97 8-bit, but modify the FPS field to 23.98. Then log clips so in points are on 00 or 05 frames only.
-If all else fails, you can load in 60i and use Cinema Tools or After Effects to remove the pulldown.

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 Owner/operator


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gary adcock
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 16, 2007 at 2:25:56 am

[Evan McIntosh] "ry disconnecting sync (and any other inputs) and setting the Kona to internal sync. It shouldn't matter (the Kona normally locks to the input), but it's worth a shot. "

good point, unless he is working with Trilevel sync- the sync signal will be at 29.97

"- Be absolutely sure you choose the 1080psf 23.98 preset, not 1080p 23.98 (there are both). "
that would be the kona settings.

"whereas 1080p over i->1080psf might not be (I use the 1400) "

your settings on either deck will not output 1080p - the standard for the 1080 format is PsF and that is all the 1200 and 1400 can output,
I know the can generate a 1080 true P signal-- the mini decks do not.





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LHe & pulldown removal
on Dec 16, 2007 at 8:23:13 am

[Evan McIntosh] "Perhaps conversion on the 1200 is only for 720p24 -> 1080psf24 (the HDX didn't exist when the 1200 was released)? "


I am pretty sure it's both decks. I am not 100%. Make sure to take out any tape before switching modes, and yes be sure to power cycle the deck.


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