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Timecode out RS422

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Rich Rubasch
Timecode out RS422
on Nov 3, 2007 at 10:40:43 pm

I have a KonaLH in a G5 dual 2.7 with the breakout box. I also have a Horita RTL50 that will take an RS422 connector from a deck or NLE and convert the embedded timecode to a timecode out connector. Very cool.

I was able to get the timecode out to work once from the Kona remote connector. I don't recall what I did in the control panel, but it just began working at the deck.

The idea is to take the remote out of the Kona, send it to the Horita, create a timecode signal that I send to the Timecode in on my panasonic AJ-1200 so that I can get a timecode match on the deck to the timecode in the sequence. Just hit record, hit play on the timeline and I'm getting a timecode match to my deck. Almost as good as an assemble edit....which the 1200 cannot do.

I had it working, now I cannot get the right settings on the control panel for the Horita to see the timecode. Anyone have any ideas.

BTW, when I send the RS422 from any deck playing a tape the horita instantly locks to that timecode correctly...so it is the RS422 out of the Kona that is giving me fits.

Any thoughts appreciated. Oh, and latest Kona software loaded...OS 10.4.9, FCP 6.0.1.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media


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gary adcock
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 3, 2007 at 11:51:50 pm

Rick


what is wrong with using the kona card to output the serial info? why add another device in the chain to mess things up

If you are using the Kona 4.0 driver- open the control panel, got to the timecode pane, and check the box to use QT time code if your sequence is set for the correct time code you want -

Otherwise set the time in the OUTPUT TIMECODE OFFSET and then choose the correct timebase for your footage and the Kona card will output the time correctly.


for me your way is too much work.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 4, 2007 at 12:04:48 am

The AJ 1200 is not an editing deck and therefore cannot accurately assemble edit to tape. I can control the deck just fine for uploading, but I cannot edit to tape or Print to tape with accurate timecode matching to the sequence.

However, if the Horita box creates the timecode signal for the deck, and the deck is in external regen, I can simply crash record and get a timecode match on the tape. Brilliant if it works.

I also use the Horita to make timecode-matching downconverted anamorphic dubs to DVCAM from my SonyM25U. I have the Convergent MBox which converts the firewire to RS422 which I run to the Horita which outputs a timeocde signal for the DVCAM dubs. the M25U does not have timecode out, but with the Convergent and the Horita it does!

I was curious if the Quicktime Timecode setting in the Kona Control Panel was the one to use if I wanted to take the timecode from the sequence...

Thanks,

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media


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gary adcock
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 4, 2007 at 1:26:56 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "The AJ 1200 is not an editing deck and therefore cannot accurately assemble edit to tape"

the 1200 is not an editing deck, however as walter notes there are options for delivering tapes with proper timecode.

the reason is that Panny did not include the flying erase heads on the 1200,

However you are not doing an assemble edit - you are doing a crash record with timecode in, and that is capably handled by the kona card when attached to any deck.

Part of the issue falls to FCP also, as Apple has been notorious for not handling TC properly.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 4, 2007 at 6:03:35 pm

Gary said:
"However you are not doing an assemble edit - you are doing a crash record with timecode in, and that is capably handled by the kona card when attached to any deck. "

What is the timecode input to the deck from Kona? The RS422 cable? If you tell the deck to take external timecode isn't it going to look at the Timecode input BNC connector? The Kona card does not have a timecode out right?

Or are you thinking firewire?

Curious,

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media


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gary adcock
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 5, 2007 at 2:12:32 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "Or are you thinking firewire? "

NO I am not. I am talking about TC output via RS422

"If you tell the deck to take external timecode isn't it going to look at the Timecode input BNC connector? "

FCP DOES NOT understand LTC information over SDI in any way shape or form,
FCP ONLY understands timecode over the 9 pin serial connection.

"The Kona card does not have a timecode out right? "

EH??? what do you call that 9 pin serial connection.

you obviously are confusing what FCP cannot do as a fault of the Kona card, when in actuality you have the roles reversed.

I can take your master QT output file with timecode embedded and output via the AJA / Kona TV app and get consistent repeatable results.

The issue here has always been with FCP's inability to properly implement timecode support, not the Kona card.



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php


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ALEX PADILLA
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Apr 23, 2008 at 8:25:31 pm

Hello Gary:

I read your advice on the time code issue on november 7 2007. I just want my betacam deck TC to match my output from my FCP. We are using AJA LH. WE ARE USING A G5 DUAL.

ALEX
apadilla@ricart.com



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gary adcock
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 3, 2007 at 11:51:50 pm

Rick


what is wrong with using the kona card to output the serial info? why add another device in the chain to mess things up

If you are using the Kona 4.0 driver- open the control panel, got to the timecode pane, and check the box to use QT time code if your sequence is set for the correct time code you want -

Otherwise set the time in the OUTPUT TIMECODE OFFSET and then choose the correct timebase for your footage and the Kona card will output the time correctly.


for me your way is too much work.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php


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walter biscardi
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 4, 2007 at 10:21:12 am

[Rich Rubasch] "Just hit record, hit play on the timeline and I'm getting a timecode match to my deck. Almost as good as an assemble edit....which the 1200 cannot do."

Sure it can do an Assemble Edit. I delivered about 40 - 50 broadcast HD Masters from my 1200A before I replaced it with a 1400, all of them done with an Assemble Edit.

You have to choose DVCPro HD Firewire for Device Control and then you have to figure out the Offset for your VTR. the offset is always consistent with a particular deck so once you figure it out, then you're good to go.

In my case it was 20. I would black the tape in the 1200A to 00:59:00:00 then set an In Point on the deck at that time.

On the timeline I would slide my entire timeline down so Bars started at 00:59:00:20 and that would also be my In Point on the timeline.

Launch Edit to Tape, perform the Assemble Edit and everything laid down perfectly to network specs. Bars at 00:59:00:00, Slate at 00:59:30:00, Show Start at 01:00:00:02.

Takes some practice but it can be done.

Now if you're laying off DVCPro HD, you CAN send TC down firewire to the deck along with video. Simply set the deck up for Firewire input and External TC via Firewire. Hit Play on your timeline, make sure it's rolling, and then hit Record on the deck.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR The new Color Training DVD now available from the Creative Cow!

Read my Blog!


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 4, 2007 at 5:56:40 pm

Right....I assumed that Gary was thinking I could get the 1200 to see the timecode from the RS422....if I use firewire as machine control I can figure out the offset and do the assemble edit. I was only using RS422 as control up until now.

Perhaps Gary just assumed I would use Firewire to get the timecode out to the deck, (he never mentioned it however) but with the Horita I could easily convert the timecode from the remote to a useable timecode to feed the deck's timecode input.

We have been taking HD P2 card files off hard drives and stringing them onto a timeline making sure that the timecode remained continuous from clip to clip, which it does. Then we want to output the timeline to a DVCProHD tape with matching timecode so the tape has an exact Timecode match to the files. we set the start time of the sequence with the first clip's timecode and we are all set.

If I go with Firewire as my output and machine control to the deck, and if the clips have a 23.98 timecode, should I drag the clips to a 29.97 sequence, or output the 23.98 right off the 23.98 sequence? I'm going to do a few tests today to see what the deck does with the 23.98 once it gets out to tape. But the P2 files definitely have a 23.98 timecode.

Thanks guys....let the testing begin (right after the Packers game).

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media


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Larry Asbell
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 4, 2007 at 6:40:38 pm

Rich -
A few weeks ago I did the exact same procedure laying P2 files out to tape with matching code. I have a 1200a and a Kona 3 card. The trick I use is to output to two decks at once: a Betacam under the RS-422 control and the 1200a started by manual crash record. Even if you don't need the Beta copy, it does the job of generating the timecode for the 1200a. Just patch TC out from the Beta to TC in of the 1200a and select external TC.

In other words, any SD editing deck will do the job you were trying to get the Horita to do. And it works just as well for show mastering.

Nice to know from Walter and Gary that the 1200a can be controlled to crash record with accurate TC, but as Gary is fond of saying, "that's just too much work."



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Rich Rubasch
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 4, 2007 at 7:12:31 pm

Thanks Larry.....I knew that that was also an option....I had done that before....just roll to the beta and take the TC out to the 1200. The Horita was going to be a simple in between. I am going to do the Firewire tests and will post back.

Rich


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 4, 2007 at 8:32:06 pm

One more thing....if you were thinking I would use Firewire to get timecode accurate outputs, I don't have the firewire option on the deck...DOH.

Knew I should have ordered that 6 months ago!

Rich


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walter biscardi
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 4, 2007 at 11:08:13 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "
One more thing....if you were thinking I would use Firewire to get timecode accurate outputs, I don't have the firewire option on the deck...DOH."


Then I don't have any other suggestions for you. Sorry.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR The new Color Training DVD now available from the Creative Cow!

Read my Blog!


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gary adcock
Re: Timecode out RS422
on Nov 5, 2007 at 2:04:11 pm

[Rich Rubasch] ".I assumed that Gary was thinking I could get the 1200 to see the timecode from the RS422....if I use firewire as machine control I can figure out the offset and do the assemble edit. I was only using RS422 as control up until now."

I have no issue laying tape with correct timecode to a 1200 or 1400 series deck via RS422 as I described, the problem has been part of FCP since the beginning and the Kona control panel now( in FCP v6) allows you to bypass this issue and layoff an entire tape. The assemble edit work around that walter describes allows you to punch into a tape within a couple of frames.

"I if the clips have a 23.98 timecode, should I drag the clips to a 29.97 sequence, or output the 23.98 right off the 23.98 sequence? I"

you will not get 24fps timecode on the tape- that timebase it does not exist in DVCPROHD on tape- the timecode on the tape will be 29.97



gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php


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